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re: DOJ - Landlords Should Not Share Rental Information-
Posted on 8/24/24 at 8:48 am to ItzMe1972
Posted on 8/24/24 at 8:48 am to ItzMe1972
Landlords are the most oppressed minority. Other groups commit crimes and cause problems and are celebrated while landlords work hard and keep our nose to the grindstone just trying to give people a home and the government passes laws that take away our rights. It’s very sad
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Posted on 8/24/24 at 10:43 am to Thundercles
quote:
Since RealPage captures such a huge chunk of the market, that competition is impossible so prices remain higher.
You keep saying this. 3 million nationwide is not a huge chunk to me. A quick google search says there are 144 million homes in the USA. I very much doubt CNN gives 2 shits about the south. Most of the complaints here are in San Fran and other big cities nationwide.
I just can't agree that less than 2% is causing a major impact, I'm sorry. Now sure there's a large chunk that's the rental market. But its not like tenants are forced to stay in Realpage property anywhere.
Again, its accurate pricing to get the most revenue? Its also very easy for a landlord to overprice a unit and have lower occupancy, which Realpage would be preventing.
Look, the only thing that would potentially change here is that Realpage could NOT FORCE the companies that use them to use their pricing but would make it optional. Almost every single retail market uses some sort of pricing software or AI program to manage their inventory and pricing now, most of which is 3rd party.
Are we suggesting 3rd party pricing software should not be allowed?
ETA: Furthermore, if you have something like 1000+ units i'm not even sure why you'd use Realpage. You should be able to use your own data to very accurately price your rents.
This post was edited on 8/24/24 at 10:47 am
Posted on 8/24/24 at 10:59 am to baldona
Where I'm coming from is I'm a small time landlord with a handful of properties. I absolutely do not feel like anyone with pricing software has an advantage. I would not feel like tenants have a disadvantage.
Rents are high because of demand and interest rates. You can still find cheap places to rent in poor locations.
Pricing software like this would mostly eliminate the outliers, but its on both sides cheap and expensive. The idea is to get the most accurate pricing. LIke I said, you can also be overpriced which increases vacancy and decreases revenue.
Rents are high because of demand and interest rates. You can still find cheap places to rent in poor locations.
Pricing software like this would mostly eliminate the outliers, but its on both sides cheap and expensive. The idea is to get the most accurate pricing. LIke I said, you can also be overpriced which increases vacancy and decreases revenue.
This post was edited on 8/24/24 at 11:01 am
Posted on 8/24/24 at 11:08 am to baldona
"Rents are high because of demand and interest rates"
--
As well as huge insurance and maintenance/repair costs.
Kamala and their ilk also want national rent controls.
--
As well as huge insurance and maintenance/repair costs.
Kamala and their ilk also want national rent controls.
This post was edited on 8/24/24 at 11:10 am
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:14 pm to baldona
quote:
You keep saying this. 3 million nationwide is not a huge chunk to me.
Where are you getting 3 million from? They report to have at least 20 million doors. I also think their primary target is apartment buildings, not single family homes. They can get in with the management companies and take over rent for their entire portfolio, then do that with all the major operations in town.
Beyond that, I have been reading their tactic is to try to cover entire cities rather than get their footprint in tons of cities at once. So those 20 million doors end up being concentrated in a handful of cities, which is where their market power derives.
I think landlords like yourself are untouched by this because you truly wouldn't beneift from what they offer, so there's little to no no interaction.
quote:
Furthermore, if you have something like 1000+ units i'm not even sure why you'd use Realpage. You should be able to use your own data to very accurately price your rents.
As to this question, I earnestly believe it gave management of those companies a veneer of deniability. I imagine there was always some light collusion going on regarding apartment prices, but they had to work to keep it veiled. By handing the responsibility off to RealPage, they're separated by one more layer from scrutiny.
Posted on 8/25/24 at 8:07 pm to baldona
Seems like obvious collusion and price manipulation. Why is anyone upset with the DoJ on this?
Posted on 8/27/24 at 7:57 am to PlanoPrivateer
quote:
Now do the hotel industry. They buy data and make real time price changes all day long.
You can bet your arse that when there is a giant hotel / STR shortage there will be an investigation. Far from it now.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:59 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
You can bet your arse that when there is a giant hotel / STR shortage there will be an investigation. Far from it now.
That's my point. The only reason people are upset over this is because rents are high, which has very little to do with Realpage. Realpage's software doesn't do anything different when demand is high or when its low. They aren't colluding during low times to make rents higher, they are simply maximizing rents during all periods.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 3:21 pm to baldona
quote:
I just can't agree that less than 2% is causing a major impact, I'm sorry. Now sure there's a large chunk that's the rental market. But its not like tenants are forced to stay in Realpage property anywhere.
quote:
In one neighborhood in Seattle, ProPublica found, 70% of apartments were overseen by just 10 property managers, every single one of which used pricing software sold by RealPage.
Depending on the size of that neighborhood, one entity setting a rent floor for 70% of apartments is going to have a huge impact on that market.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 3:33 pm to baldona
quote:
If the demand decreases, imagine this, they do drop rents. Its about maximizing their values. Tons of industries do this.
Except they don't. They were very upfront about the fact that they do the exact opposite:
quote:
Unimpeded by human worries, YieldStar’s price increases sometimes led to more tenants leaving.
Camden’s turnover rates increased about 15 percentage points in 2006 after it implemented YieldStar, Campo, the company’s CEO, told a trade publication a few years later. But that wasn’t a problem for the firm: Despite having to replace more renters, its revenue grew by 7.4%.
“The net effect of driving revenue and pushing people out was $10 million in income,” Campo said. “I think that shows keeping the heads in the beds above all else is not always the best strategy.”
quote:
One of the greatest threats to a landlord’s profit, according to Roper and other executives, was other firms setting rents too low at nearby properties. “If you have idiots undervaluing, it costs the whole system,” Roper said.
What system? The system of collusion.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 9:27 am to Lightning
quote:
Except they don't. They were very upfront about the fact that they do the exact opposite:
This is pretty damning
Posted on 8/28/24 at 10:58 am to tenderfoot tigah
quote:
By the same token, with the same data someone can charge less to get their apartments rented out.
That was going to be my point as well. This feels like yet another way this administration is trying to blame small businesses for inflation that they themselves have created through a bloated money supply, free money, and increased regulation/taxes/costs for the working class and especially those small business owners.
This post was edited on 8/28/24 at 10:58 am
Posted on 8/28/24 at 11:47 am to ItzMe1972
RealPage is the big player. They had their own software and bought up another. They will take a beating simply because they're a massive target.
I guess I just don't understand how they could be at fault, unless they were dictating abnormal thresholds for supply and demand. Why would a landlord allow that, if it hurt their occupancy enough to lower their rent collection. The landlord has the ultimate say so. When supply is high, the rents go down. When supply is low, the rents go up. It is all also dependent on having demand, regardless of supply. It is not uncommon for rent to stabilize or drop, even at low supply, if demand is gone. Occupancy is still a thing. Empty apartments collect $0 rent, even if the other 97% of them are occupied.
I guess I just don't understand how they could be at fault, unless they were dictating abnormal thresholds for supply and demand. Why would a landlord allow that, if it hurt their occupancy enough to lower their rent collection. The landlord has the ultimate say so. When supply is high, the rents go down. When supply is low, the rents go up. It is all also dependent on having demand, regardless of supply. It is not uncommon for rent to stabilize or drop, even at low supply, if demand is gone. Occupancy is still a thing. Empty apartments collect $0 rent, even if the other 97% of them are occupied.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 11:47 am to Lightning
quote:
Except they don't. They were very upfront about the fact that they do the exact opposite:
quote:
Unimpeded by human worries, YieldStar’s price increases sometimes led to more tenants leaving.
Camden’s turnover rates increased about 15 percentage points in 2006 after it implemented YieldStar, Campo, the company’s CEO, told a trade publication a few years later. But that wasn’t a problem for the firm: Despite having to replace more renters, its revenue grew by 7.4%.
“The net effect of driving revenue and pushing people out was $10 million in income,” Campo said. “I think that shows keeping the heads in the beds above all else is not always the best strategy.
Who said the demand decreased? You are assuming because some tenants are leaving the demand is lower, that's not at all what its saying. Its saying they increased the rents and tenants left, then they refilled the properties with new tenants paying more.
That's not a decrease in demand at all...
Again, the only issue here is that RealPage potentially forced the companies to use their rents. The simple fix legally is to not force them to use their rents, but just give recommendations. It may or may not work as well, but there's nothing illegal about sharing company data and using that at your own discrepency.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 11:50 am to Lightning
quote:
In one neighborhood in Seattle, ProPublica found, 70% of apartments were overseen by just 10 property managers, every single one of which used pricing software sold by RealPage.
Depending on the size of that neighborhood, one entity setting a rent floor for 70% of apartments is going to have a huge impact on that market.
One neighborhood in one city? We are really grasping for straws here. So we are going to govern the entire corporation over what occurred in one city in one neighborhood. You are better than this.
Posted on 8/28/24 at 5:25 pm to baldona
quote:
One neighborhood in one city? We are really grasping for straws here. So we are going to govern the entire corporation over what occurred in one city in one neighborhood. You are better than this.
Are you familiar with the concept of an example?
No, it is not "one neighborhood in one city." According to the Washington State Attorney General, it was actually 800,000 leases across the state since 2017. LINK
There are estimates that RealPage pricing affects 70% of nationwide apartment buildings, up to 16 million units. LINK
Is that true? I don't know. Neither do you. The DOJ and the state attorneys general think they have a case though, so we'll see if they can prove it in court.
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