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re: Why Pull a Starter Who is Throwing a No-Hitter
Posted on 7/13/24 at 8:45 am to Lester Earl
Posted on 7/13/24 at 8:45 am to Lester Earl
Clay Holmes, pitching in the 9th inning in 2023:
There are 50 Clay Holmes in the MLB right now.(if not more). Guys that are better for 1 inning than Ron Guidry ever was lol.
quote:
batters hit .215 & slugged .273 off of him.
There are 50 Clay Holmes in the MLB right now.(if not more). Guys that are better for 1 inning than Ron Guidry ever was lol.
2
Posted on 7/13/24 at 8:48 am to Lester Earl
Nvm didn’t do that right
This post was edited on 7/13/24 at 8:57 am
Posted on 7/13/24 at 9:12 am to CWilken21
quote:
Fastball was at 97, splitter 93 in the 7th. I'm no MLB skip but to me its hard to say he was gassed when he was still hitting these numbers. He only threw 6 pitches in the 7th.
Correct and only 36 pitches over his last 4 innings combined. He was under no stress so I'm not buying he was gassed. Should have let him pitch the 8th to see if he could have another short inning and go from there.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 9:24 am to JimTiger72
Mark Prior...Stephen Strasburg
Posted on 7/13/24 at 9:44 am to Lester Earl
Some, and I haven't seen many complete games pitched in the interim.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 9:47 am to Lester Earl
Yes, I've watched a few MLB games since the 70's, and I haven't seen many complete games pitched in the interim.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 9:50 am to Tenntig
Why is it so important to you that Skenes gets a no-hitter in his 1st year after pitching a ton of innings the past year?
I’m guessing he’ll have plenty more opportunities as he progresses. The Pirates are understandably not taking any risks with their stud rookie pitcher. And is a no-hitter really that big a deal?..fricking Mike Fiers has TWO!
I’m guessing he’ll have plenty more opportunities as he progresses. The Pirates are understandably not taking any risks with their stud rookie pitcher. And is a no-hitter really that big a deal?..fricking Mike Fiers has TWO!
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:04 pm to Tenntig
Everyone I’ve known that pitched has a fricked up arm. It’s not if , it’s when. He’s probably worth close to a billion dollars to the team , the city, mlb, networks etc… hell, maybe more. I think he threw 120ish innings last year . I’m sure that was his high. If he’s at 85 or 90 , maybe . It was the right thing for virtually everyone.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:08 pm to Tenntig
quote:
Shenes deserved a shot at the no-hitter but he was stopped by manager interference
This is a hilarious statement.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:23 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
been a Bucs fan since 77. They will make no moves.
As a Pirate fan, by the way I love your ballpark....seen 5 games there....your thoughts on the Bryan Reynolds extension?
This post was edited on 7/13/24 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:23 pm to JerryTheKingBawler
quote:
This thread gave me AIDS
shake it off Jerry...
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:38 pm to nwacajun
quote:
I think he threw 120ish innings last year .
And the trend of today, whether you subscribe to it or not....it's now almost universally accepted in MLB, is that pitcher cannot or should not exceed the innings pitched the previous year by 30. So 150 innings is almost certainly going to be a danger zone for Skenes, minors and majors combined.
So the Pirates will almost certainly either start skipping starts now to get him to the end of the season at that number or shut him down whenever he reaches that number.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:42 pm to Tenntig
A lot of you would be the first ones criticizing the coach if he left Skenes in too long and he started to get shelled.
I feel for coaches sometimes: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I feel for coaches sometimes: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 12:46 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
him keep going and watch closely to see how he does.
Do you honestly think they weren't doing this?
Posted on 7/13/24 at 1:23 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:then let’s be even more careful and pull him after 75 pitches. Or 50.
Sorry you're willing to sacrifice Skenes arm for you to pay attention to MLB baseball for 15 minutes. Maybe grab a beer and sit on your porch instead.
Hell, pull him after 25 and he’ll pitch til he’s 50 years old.
My point isn’t to pitch him to utter exhaustion every outing, but when he’s got a no-hitter going and he feels good, let him keep going.
A couple more inning, once in awhile, for a 22 year old isn’t going to do a thing to his career.
After all, would you pull him after 100 pitches in game 1 of the World Series?
Posted on 7/13/24 at 2:11 pm to Tenntig
Dude I mean dumbass
Posted on 7/13/24 at 2:28 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
And the trend of today, whether you subscribe to it or not....it's now almost universally accepted in MLB, is that pitcher cannot or should not exceed the innings pitched the previous year by 30. So 150 innings is almost certainly going to be a danger zone for Skenes, minors and majors combined.
Wonder how today's proponents of this approach explain the great arms of the past. As another poster pointed out, it wasn't just Nolan Ryan who threw lots of innings, but so many others, e.g., Steve Carlton.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 2:29 pm to Jugular Joe
quote:
Correct and only 36 pitches over his last 4 innings combined.
Yeah, but he threw 63 in the 1st 3. That’s a lot in a short time. I didn’t watch the game, but just going by the score, I bet the Pirates halves were pretty quick, probably not giving him much time to rest between innings. He could have been fighting it since the 4th.
quote:
He was under no stress
You can’t know that.
quote:
so I'm not buying he was gassed.
Again, you can’t know that. It was a get away day, a day game in mid July, and maybe he wasn’t feeling 100% strong even going in. It happens to all starters a handful of times throughout the year. The “problem” with Skenes is that he’s such a freak of nature, that he can go out not feeling his best and still dominate another major league lineup.
And he can be “done”—for him—without us even knowing it. Skenes at 75-80% is still better than most guys at 100.
quote:
Should have let him pitch the 8th to see if he could have another short inning and go from there.
Probably would have if they were at home at night with a full stadium cheering him on. Or if he’d fought for it. I know he’s a rookie who they’re trying to protect, but I bet if he came out to get him and Skenes told him, “you are not taking this fricking ball from me right now, motherfricker. I’ve got this shite,” he has the personality and cache already to be let go. Or if he’d had talked to him in the dugout after the inning and said “Don’t you even fricking think about taking me out of this fricking game,” he’d have come back out. Didn’t seem like Skenes put up much of a fight.
Which leads me back to the All-Star game. I think the Pirates manager and the Diamondbacks manager had already talked, and they knew they wanted Skenes to start, but only if he threw around 100 pitches or less. Hell, Skenes probably knew as well. If he had to throw 25-30 more high leverage pitches Thursday, there’s no way the Pirates are letting him start Tuesday. Or maybe even pitch at all. All-Star starters can’t help but ramp it up even more when they know everybody’s watching and they’re facing the best hitters from the other league a lot of times for the 1st time. Their adrenaline is so high, it’s impossible to rein them in. You think Skenes was pumped up to face the Cubs, the Brewers, even the Dodgers? Watch how amped up he gets when Aaron Judge steps in the box.
tl;dr—the timing sucks, but I think Skenes goes back out for the 8th if the All-star game wasn’t Tuesday, and it hadn’t been predetermined he was gonna start.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 6:07 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
As another poster pointed out, it wasn't just Nolan Ryan who threw lots of innings, but so many others, e.g., Steve Carlton.
I think they would say they are outliers, not that I necessarily agree but that would be the rebuttal.
But to be transparent I have seen deep dives into pitchers in that era and their 3rd and 4th times through the lineup numbers are pretty consistent with todays, which is not very good, except for the best....like Carleton and Ryan.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 8:26 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:it is pretty typical. They keep a good player and probably gave him one of the highest dollar value contracts in Pitt history. Thereby guaranteeing they trade other proven talent to pay him.
As a Pirate fan, by the way I love your ballpark....seen 5 games there....your thoughts on the Bryan Reynolds extension?
They will talk about a bright future. They do not have the ability to keep top talent. They have pretty good baseball guys around the org. But a tiny market. Unless the kick into it Billy Beene style I don’t see them being relevant
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