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Posted on 10/28/16 at 8:01 pm to Brotorious
not even close to the same scenario
Posted on 10/28/16 at 8:03 pm to Brotorious
quote:
#t! (Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll the most recent.)
Bad comparison, because both those guys failed in the NFL, which is a completely different game. See Saban and Spurrier as examples.
Posted on 10/28/16 at 11:08 pm to Brotorious
So we are looking at something 30 or so years ago. Not relevant at all. MA at the times was the--or one of the--youngest head coaches around. He had no prior relevant HC experience, and quite honestly, his follow-on history proved he was never HC material to begin with. He got the job because LSU was cheap--very cheap. They were fortunate with the BA hire.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 3:14 am to airbornetiger
This a totally not a well thought out topic.
To say Mike Archer could and would not recruit is totally false, as Mike was the main recruiter from Bill's time as coach as Bill did not like to recruit and did very little to help recruiting (So Mike became the man on the recruiting front for LSU in Bill's time).
How many times do I have to post prop 48 killed Louisiana recruiting and LSU and the staff recruited out of state to help and signed many in the top 50 national only to have all fail.
Hindsight is at best 20/20, but this thread makes it like 90/100 as most forget that Steve had near no recruiting experience, he was a USFL coach (Tampa Bay Bandits). Steve would coach Duke the next season as his first year as a head coach at a college.
Steve's record at Tampa Bay Bandits at the time was 35-21. Before that he was a QB coach at Florida and Georgia Tech, then the OC at Duke.
What we have today is totally different situation, LSU is looked at as a top 5 job, back then it was not. Today LSU is a recruiting powerhouse, back then it was not.
To say Mike Archer could and would not recruit is totally false, as Mike was the main recruiter from Bill's time as coach as Bill did not like to recruit and did very little to help recruiting (So Mike became the man on the recruiting front for LSU in Bill's time).
How many times do I have to post prop 48 killed Louisiana recruiting and LSU and the staff recruited out of state to help and signed many in the top 50 national only to have all fail.
Hindsight is at best 20/20, but this thread makes it like 90/100 as most forget that Steve had near no recruiting experience, he was a USFL coach (Tampa Bay Bandits). Steve would coach Duke the next season as his first year as a head coach at a college.
Steve's record at Tampa Bay Bandits at the time was 35-21. Before that he was a QB coach at Florida and Georgia Tech, then the OC at Duke.
What we have today is totally different situation, LSU is looked at as a top 5 job, back then it was not. Today LSU is a recruiting powerhouse, back then it was not.
This post was edited on 10/29/16 at 3:40 am
Posted on 10/29/16 at 6:10 am to Brotorious
quote:
After Bill Arnsparger's successful run we transitioned into Mike Archer. Shoulda, coulda, woulda'd on Steve Spurrier.
Different circumstances and a foolish decision. I'm okay with Orgeron if he is the best available. First, he has to get the most out of this team for the remainder of the season. It doesn't just all come down to Alabama.
We know he can recruit. However LSU's brand is stronger now (vs 1988) so recruiting is not going to suffer with any coach worth a damn. Does he have the goods in other areas: organization, vision, academics, discipline, hiring/retaining great coordinators and assistants and attention to detail? It's a big job.
We have no idea who has inquired about the job or their real level of interest vs obtaining leverage in their current job.
Just let it play out. We could certainly do worse than Orgeron but maybe we could do better.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 6:54 am to Croozin2
quote:
But the players love to win
FIFY
It's all about the W...
Posted on 10/29/16 at 8:44 am to Brotorious
Agree with OP, Archer failed because he did not recruit and was not a disciplinarian when he needed to be. CEO does not share those weaknesses with Archer.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 8:55 am to Brotorious
Archer was a "players coach" just like O.
Nobody's suggesting we get rid of Coach O. We can keep him on for recruiting coordinator, assistant head coach, etc. Give him a raise. whatever. But he wont bring anything more to the program by being HC than he's already doing as a recruiter/DL coach. What this staff needs is what its been needing since Jimbo left- a good tactician on the offensive side of the ball. Thats the only way to reach LSU's true potential of domination on both sides of the ball. Not just a dominant defense and then try to score a few points on offense with incredible athletes. That was the Miles way, and thats what we'd be with Coach O relying on whatever O coordinator we can find. (recruit better athletes and then get outcoached on game day so every game comes down to the wire. No thanks, been there, done that.)
Nobody's suggesting we get rid of Coach O. We can keep him on for recruiting coordinator, assistant head coach, etc. Give him a raise. whatever. But he wont bring anything more to the program by being HC than he's already doing as a recruiter/DL coach. What this staff needs is what its been needing since Jimbo left- a good tactician on the offensive side of the ball. Thats the only way to reach LSU's true potential of domination on both sides of the ball. Not just a dominant defense and then try to score a few points on offense with incredible athletes. That was the Miles way, and thats what we'd be with Coach O relying on whatever O coordinator we can find. (recruit better athletes and then get outcoached on game day so every game comes down to the wire. No thanks, been there, done that.)
This post was edited on 10/29/16 at 9:03 am
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:06 am to Brotorious
quote:
there are many a great football coach that have failed at the first stop
Name the SEC coaches who got fired for winning less than 40% of their games and their next head coach job was in the SEC.
If Les hadn't been fired and we were 5-2 after three wins over bad teams, this board would be screaming that those three wins didn't mean shite. Now, those same three wins are reason to hire a position coach from Les' staff.
Stupid does run deep on the rant!
Posted on 10/29/16 at 9:57 am to LSUtoBOOT
LSUtoBOOT do you even remember the recruiting back then or the names of the recruits and where they were ranked?
Mike recruited and no recruit from Louisiana made All American out of state.
The best 2 to leave the state at that time were Carr to Clemson and Jackson to Pitt.
Prop 48 killed Louisiana recruiting, so Mike and the staff recruited Florida, Miss. and Texas.
Near every recruit brought in with a higher ranking out of high school failed once in college level talent.
Recruiting back then is not like today.
Oh and who was that recruited and visited near all those recruits so much because Bill hated to recruit, oh that was Archer.
Disciplinarian, nice word, but no LSU coach was like that, not Charlie, not Stovall, not Bill and not Paul. How many fights did players have time and time again in the 50's-80's and near nothing was done? I had friends that got into fights with the players in those days. Class work? Like Pete how many missed classes and nothing was done? Not a good word to use in this miss guided thread.
Mike recruited and no recruit from Louisiana made All American out of state.
The best 2 to leave the state at that time were Carr to Clemson and Jackson to Pitt.
Prop 48 killed Louisiana recruiting, so Mike and the staff recruited Florida, Miss. and Texas.
Near every recruit brought in with a higher ranking out of high school failed once in college level talent.
Recruiting back then is not like today.
Oh and who was that recruited and visited near all those recruits so much because Bill hated to recruit, oh that was Archer.
Disciplinarian, nice word, but no LSU coach was like that, not Charlie, not Stovall, not Bill and not Paul. How many fights did players have time and time again in the 50's-80's and near nothing was done? I had friends that got into fights with the players in those days. Class work? Like Pete how many missed classes and nothing was done? Not a good word to use in this miss guided thread.
This post was edited on 10/29/16 at 9:59 am
Posted on 10/29/16 at 10:17 am to madddoggydawg
Posted on 10/29/16 at 10:21 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Nobody's suggesting we get rid of Coach O. We can keep him on for recruiting coordinator, assistant head coach, etc.
It's delusional to think this is going to happen.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 11:52 am to tigger1
Tigger1, recruiting is not just about going to the house of the recruit, it's also about knowing which house to go to, no matter which state it is located. Discipline is not just about off field behavior, but also on field focus, preparation, and accountability. Archer's teams got progressively worse each year, after a great first year. Perhaps you can tell us why that is the case if he was such a good recruiter and as good (or bad) a disciplinarian as the others you mentioned, with which I respectfully disagree.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 12:19 pm to Brotorious
quote:
We have a bad case of Mike Archer-itis!
I thought you were trying to douse the desire of the people who want to hire Orgeron. I was ready to support you until I read your post.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 12:27 pm to Brotorious
quote:
Im on board the CEO train.
Yes I can understand the enthusiasm for CEO right now, but the beauty of the CEO train is that you can wait 4 weeks to be on board. It is smarter to sit and watch how the next 4 weeks go because WE ARE NOT going to hire a coach before the end of the TAMU game for sure. I love CEO also but I have time to hop on the train, being early here doesn't matter ONE bit!!!
Posted on 10/29/16 at 12:29 pm to LSUtoBOOT
Maybe LSUtoBOOT that has much to do with prop 48 destroying many football teams at the time, only Miss St, Texas A&M and a few other teams faired better than us because the head coaches at those schools recruited the JuCo ranks, which Archer was not allowed to do other than for the 2-3 Louisiana recruits LSU was hard after?
Every think about that?
Or the fact our secondary, lb and dl position were thin when Bill left and if not for Young and Harmon coming in from the SMU death penalty we would not have won 10 games in 1987?
It is a fact LSU would not recruit JuCo at a time we were super thin at 3 positions, and by 1989 our OL was down to near nothing and that was our strong point, injuries, and players quitting caused that. The powers in power at LSU at the time would not let the staff recruit JuCo, that is the only way LSU likely could have kept a winning record at time.
Every think about that?
Or the fact our secondary, lb and dl position were thin when Bill left and if not for Young and Harmon coming in from the SMU death penalty we would not have won 10 games in 1987?
It is a fact LSU would not recruit JuCo at a time we were super thin at 3 positions, and by 1989 our OL was down to near nothing and that was our strong point, injuries, and players quitting caused that. The powers in power at LSU at the time would not let the staff recruit JuCo, that is the only way LSU likely could have kept a winning record at time.
This post was edited on 10/29/16 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 10/29/16 at 12:40 pm to Brotorious
quote:
I used it to show why I think people are afraid to hire Oregon
We all know Archer was a 'player's coach' like O, but that is where the comparison ends.
Archer was a terrible recruiter and whether his fault or not, did not have the best coaches.
Coach O on the other hand, is a great recruiter, this is his dream job, he also knows LSU has the $$ to bring in the best OC money can buy.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 1:27 pm to Brotorious
Fun fact, Les Miles won the same amount of national titles as Steve Spurrier.
Posted on 10/29/16 at 2:33 pm to Brotorious
I'm pretty sure that we hired Archer mostly because Arnsparger told us to. He wasn't at LSU long enough to influence that decision...but he did.
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