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re: Was talking with a Michigan fan tonight....
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:45 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:45 am to SlowFlowPro
I don't understand how you can talk about a college coach and leave out recruiting as a part of being a great coach. Sure, Carroll (who I hate, btw) has some geographic advantages and very few truly elite programs west of the Miss. to compete with, but he still brings in all those 5* recruits. I don't understand how that can be held against him as a coach...oh, he has all that talent and has only won one nc. He recruited the talent...
My top five:
1) Pete Carroll
2)Tressel
3) Stoops
4)Les Miles
5)Urban Myer
I also think it is flawed to give a coach too much respect if they haven't won it all...that should be their ultimate yardstick.
My top five:
1) Pete Carroll
2)Tressel
3) Stoops
4)Les Miles
5)Urban Myer
I also think it is flawed to give a coach too much respect if they haven't won it all...that should be their ultimate yardstick.
1
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:49 am to mhasen1
quote:
Carrol and Stoops
have also won BCS titles and coached in BCS CG more than once. Every coach loses games to lesser teams, just like great players have bad games, its happens.
quote:
At least when Rodriguez lost to Pitt, his star quarterback was hurt.
Booty was hurt in the Stanford game and I'm pretty sure Bradford was hurt in the TT game for OU.
This post was edited on 7/7/08 at 11:21 am
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:52 am to H-Town Tiger
1. Carroll
2. Meyer
3. Les
4. Richt
5. Saban/Tubby
6. Tressel/Stoops
2. Meyer
3. Les
4. Richt
5. Saban/Tubby
6. Tressel/Stoops
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
2005-2007 were underwhelming. 2005 OSU may have been the 2nd best team in america and they didn't win the big10
2005-lost two games to the eventual National Championship (a game in which I still think we win if Troy hadn't been suspended the previous two games, because the team played much better with Troy that game than Zwick, but they split time) and the #3 team in the country by seven on the road in a very tough environment. And we did win the Big 10 that year, co-Big 10 champs.
2006-I agree.
2007-How can you say 2007 was underwhelming? A team with THREE senior starters that pre-season was picked 3rd in the Big 10 and projected by many to go to the Cap One Bowl won the Big 10 outright and made the NCG. Overacheiving, not underwhelming.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:57 am to triplesauce
quote:
2) Spurrier
quote:
3) Tressell (you have to come up bigger in big games
When was the last time SOS won a big game? He WAS a great coach, he is not a top 5 coach in 2008. And spare me the he can't get the top talent at SC. They don't get top talent at Wake or Rutgers and they are winning more. In the SEC, UK and Miss St made bowls last year, are they able to get a class of athlete USC can not?
Its also worth noting SOS got skullfricked in a NCG, just like Tressell.
This post was edited on 7/7/08 at 11:13 am
Posted on 7/7/08 at 10:59 am to Buckeye Fan 19
OSU has a decided talent advantage over everyone in the big10 (especially with UM sliding the past 2 years)
2007 was underwhelming because they were once again handled in the title game
ok, unerwhelming wasn't a good word. they were overrated as all frick in 2007 and underwhelming in 2006 and 2005 for their talent and the shite teams they play against every year (plus the 2nd most talented team being down)
2007 was underwhelming because they were once again handled in the title game
ok, unerwhelming wasn't a good word. they were overrated as all frick in 2007 and underwhelming in 2006 and 2005 for their talent and the shite teams they play against every year (plus the 2nd most talented team being down)
Posted on 7/7/08 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
ok, unerwhelming wasn't a good word. they were overrated as all frick in 2007
Probably, nobody was really that good (compared to normal top 10 teams), other than LSU.
quote:
and underwhelming in 2006 and 2005 for their talent and the shite teams they play against every year (plus the 2nd most talented team being down)
Still don't see how 2005 was underwhelming. I would've liked to have done better, but losing to the National Champions (and one of the greatest CFB players EVER), and another team on the road that finished #3 in the nation and was one second away from being the second undefeated team that year (let up losing TD at Michigan with 0:00 on the clock) isn't bad. I do think we could've won a playoff in 05, but not having Troy play every possession against UT (his fault, not Tressel's) and then having to go into an extremely difficult environment and nearly beating a team that was one play away from finishing undefeated, I wouldn't call that underwhelming.
This post was edited on 7/7/08 at 11:09 am
Posted on 7/7/08 at 11:12 am to thekid
quote:
I also think it is flawed to give a coach too much respect if they haven't won it all...that should be their ultimate yardstick.
No, it really not flawed. People like to put this mystical status on a HC for winning a NC, but fail to realize or choose to ignore that there are factors well beyond a coaches control that lead to winning the NC in CFB. Tuberville went undefeated in 2004 and didn't even play for the NC. There is literally nothing he could have done. No matter what, in 2004, some BCS team was going to be left out.
Richt has rebuilt UGA, his best season 13-1 was the same as Saban and Meyer NC seasons. Was it bad coaching on Richt's part that tOSU and Miami went undefeated in 2002 when he went 13-1? In 2006, if USC beats UCLA, Florida does not play for the BCS title. That has nothing to do with Meyer. In 2003, if USC beat Cal (they lost in 3OT) or Hawaii beats Boise St, USC, not LSU is in the Sugar Bowl. Those have nothing to do with Saban either way. Phillip Fulmer is the only SEC coach to go undefeated and win the BCS CG. Would you rather have him over Richt or Tuberville? I would not.
This post was edited on 7/7/08 at 11:23 am
Posted on 7/7/08 at 11:34 am to H-Town Tiger
How does Frank Beamer not got mentioned in this thread? Quite possibly the greatest special teams innovator ever on a sideline. I'm going to get slammed for this, I'm sure.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 11:44 am to PortCityDonkey
quote:
I'm going to get slammed for this, I'm sure.
Not by me, good choice.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 12:07 pm to PortCityDonkey
quote:
How does Frank Beamer not got mentioned in this thread?
1. Les Miles
2. Tressel
3. Frank Beamer
4. Tubby
5. Bob Stoops
Posted on 7/7/08 at 12:30 pm to PortCityDonkey
quote:
How does Frank Beamer not got mentioned in this thread? Quite possibly the greatest special teams innovator ever on a sideline. I'm going to get slammed for this, I'm sure.
I won't slam you for this but he is not Top 5!! Maybe top ten!!! His teams seem to underachieve!!!
Posted on 7/7/08 at 12:48 pm to dukke v
I think they overacheive for the talent he has. Also building a good program in Blacksksburg Va. is a feat in and of itself.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 3:41 pm to H-Town Tiger
What about Larry Kehres, the coach at Mt. Union? 9 national championships in 23 years as head coach, .921 winning percentage overall. So what if it's Div-III football.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 4:06 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
Would Tressel, Brown, Carroll, Miles or any of the others win more games than Grobe does at Wake Forest? I don't think so personally
Great call. Grobe has done more with less than anyone in thr country, with the possible exception of Paul Johnson at Navy.
But I've often thought that it takes one kind of coach to take a 3-8 program and make it into an 8-3 program. Grobe has done that.
It takes a another kind of coach to take a 8-3 program and push it up into the elite status where it is regularly contending for MNCs. Realistically Wake Forest will never do this, and there's no way to directly compare Grobe to someone like Carroll, Tressel, or Brown.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 4:56 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Carrol and Stoops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Every coach loses games to lesser teams,
That was exactly my point in defending Rodriguez.
quote:
Booty was hurt in the Stanford game and I'm pretty sure Bradford was hurt in the TT game for OU.
Comparing the importance of White to his team and those two to their respective teams is simply retarded.
BTW, Booty was completely healthy against UCLA and Jason White was completely healthy against Kansas State.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 5:58 pm to mhasen1
quote:
Comparing the importance of White to his team and those two to their respective teams is simply retarded
I didn't say they were as important, but they were as point of fact hurt. Perhaps it retarded to have all your eggs in one basket? I also was not critizing RR, however, I would rank both Stoops and Carroll over him. It is one thing to lose to a lesser rival, costing you a shot at your first NC and another to lose to a lesser rival costing you a shot at your 3rd strait BCS CG (4th strait chance to win the AP title, having won 2 or the previous 3 of those). RR is a good coach, not top 5 IMO.
quote:
Booty was completely healthy against UCLA and Jason White was completely healthy against Kansas State
UCLA and K-State made bowls, Pitt had 3 wins going in. K-State won 10 or 11 games that and Jason White was not completely healthy by the end of that game to be sure. Its also worth noting that the loss to K-State did not keep OU from the BCS CG (though it probably should have) and pretty much everyone knew it going in.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 5:59 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stoops - his teams are always a factor in the conference and national championship races, unlike Texas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is just incorrect. texas is always a factor in the big12 conference race, and if they beat OU, they'll be a factor in the national title race
I am sorry. I am right about this. Since 2000, OU has won the Big 12 South 6 times (out of 8.) They have won the Big 12 5 times, and we all know that one of their losses resulted in a NCG berth. Texas won the other 2 South titles, but has only won one conference championship. Meanwhile, OU has beaten Texas 6 out of the last 8. In every measurable way, OU and Stoops are better right now than Texas and Brown.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 6:00 pm to TigerPanzer
quote:
So what if it's Div-III football
The level of competiton is simply not there.
Its like Geno A (UConn's women's coach). Great coach to be sure. Could he coach D1 men? prolly, would he do what he's done with the UConn women? No way.
Posted on 7/7/08 at 9:27 pm to BuckeyeFan87
Tubberville
Miles
Carrol (only cause Stanford loss, which is pretty damn significant---biggest upset ever)
Saban
Croom
Richt
Meyer
Miles
Carrol (only cause Stanford loss, which is pretty damn significant---biggest upset ever)
Saban
Croom
Richt
Meyer
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