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re: Travel ball as the source of our lack of fundamentals
Posted on 6/4/18 at 9:57 am to Jim Rockford
Posted on 6/4/18 at 9:57 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Travel ball as the source of our lack of fundamentals
No. Travel ball is the result, not the cause. Parents are the cause. Too many parents are offended when their kid has to play outfield or bat in the back end of a lineup. That's why there are so damn many travel teams now. When I was at that age, I can remember there being 2 in my home town. Now there are close to 30.
1
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:00 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Dont make my kid bunt, dont make him hit a sacrifice fly, dont make him be a pinch hitter, or I'll take him to a team where he will be the Man. So they get to this level deficient in skills that should be second nature by the time theyre in middle school.
Boy you really nailed it with this OP.
I'll give you a real-life scenario. My daughter plays travel softball and she's only 9.
My 13 yr old son plays rec baseball(summers only). He came to watch one of his little sister's tournaments with me two weeks ago.
He was blown away at the FUNDAMENTALS of all these kids. In his words "Jee wiz dad. These younger girls play better than most boy teams."
He was commenting on how well they knew where each play was, heads-up base running, how to catch, field a ball, backup a throw, hit to spots, etc.
You a Dumb arse.
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 10:01 am
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:23 am to Louie
quote:
Middle school baseball is good
maybe in some places.... but the coombahya crowd has killed wreck baseball and "school ball" prior to HS.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:09 am to Jim Rockford
Wade Simmoneaux addressed travel ball and his beef wasn't so much the lack of coaching fundamentals, but the attitude of the players.
He said it made the players more selfish, soft and less likely to work hard and wait their turn. They quit, get discouraged and aren't use to sitting on the bench.
HS coaches say the same things.
All these kids consider themselves as all stars. If you put all these all stars on the same team, few want to be the guy bunting, hitting behind the runner, or playing another position than where they played in travel ball. Often parents reinforce these ideas, and want junior playing all the time, st shortstop and batting third or else.
Of course this is just a generalization. Not every kid and not every parent thinks that way, but it is prevalent. Coaches will tell you that.
He said it made the players more selfish, soft and less likely to work hard and wait their turn. They quit, get discouraged and aren't use to sitting on the bench.
HS coaches say the same things.
All these kids consider themselves as all stars. If you put all these all stars on the same team, few want to be the guy bunting, hitting behind the runner, or playing another position than where they played in travel ball. Often parents reinforce these ideas, and want junior playing all the time, st shortstop and batting third or else.
Of course this is just a generalization. Not every kid and not every parent thinks that way, but it is prevalent. Coaches will tell you that.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:09 am to choupiquesushi
That's the sad part. Kids are blowing out arms, trying to be the next 100mph pitcher. Let the boys be boys, no need for travel ball until their sophomore season....
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:14 am to Jim Rockford
LSU is the only team with players who play travel ball so I can understand OP’s point.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:43 am to Louie
quote:kids have always blown out arms..... I think it's actually less prevalent today than years ago.....meaning 70s and 80s
That's the sad part. Kids are blowing out arms
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:03 pm to choupiquesushi
Not in 6th grade. Literally happened to a kid my son was friends with.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:17 pm to doubleb
quote:It is debateable if this is correct. I personally feel that being on a good travel ball team where you are considered a utility player and do learn to do all of the above is somewhat limiting. When these good youth kids break up and head to their respective high schools, you may have a kid that is your best hitter or third baseman be in the outfield because this is what he considers himself to be.
All these kids consider themselves as all stars. If you put all these all stars on the same team, few want to be the guy bunting, hitting behind the runner, or playing another position than where they played in travel ball. Often parents reinforce these ideas, and want junior playing all the time, st shortstop and batting third or else.
The one year age groups is something I disagree with, I think a kid should be on a team where they face failure because they are the youngest or least physically developed. Then next year they are better and take on a more prominent role on the team. Personally I think this develops better work habits and ball players.
quote:I have never seen this. Not denying it and I am sure it has happened. Generally it is the opposite, if your child is a weaker player on a good team many times parents freak out if they are put in a position of more responsibility. I know, my kid is a good little player, but not the best on his team. Over the year he has pleasantly surprised me with his performance. I couldnt be prouder, except when he completely zones out and does something so boneheaded..then I lose my mind.
Often parents reinforce these ideas, and want junior playing all the time, st shortstop and batting third or else.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:21 pm to Louie
quote:I can recall at least two guys I played against from 10 years old in 1975 to 1978 at 13.... who could no longer throw without pain or velocity after 13 both pitched almost every game their respective teams played back then--- just back then there was no TJ surgery nor labrum repair or elbow growth plate re attachment.
Travel ball as the source of our lack of fundamentals
Not in 6th grade. Literally happened to a kid my son was friends with.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:21 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:I will disagree with you on this. Kids are throwing too much too often. It is the nature of the tournaments. I personally think that tournaments of greater than 8 teams should be run over two consecutive weekends.
kids have always blown out arms..... I think it's actually less prevalent today than years ago.....meaning 70s and 80s
There is not a team in the State that can play 4-5 games in one weekend and not overwork a pitcher. I do not care how much is said about protecting their arms. The only thing that would work is pitch counts, but then you literally would run out of players and have to forfeit. Extending the days of the tournaments, or better yet making it a travel league where you play everyone for a three game series would be cheaper and more beneficial to the players.
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:22 pm to tigerfoot
quote:late 70s in an a parish championship tourney we was the SAME pitcher for all three games in the same weekend - he pitched complete games for all three - that shite don't happen no more....well.. it does but there are rules against it.
I will disagree with you on this. Kids are throwing too much too often. It is the nature of the tournaments. I personally think that tournaments of greater than 8 teams should be run over two consecutive weekends.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:24 pm to tigerfoot
quote:yes... most well run teams / programs have separate guys for pitching on saturday and sunday.. and if said sunday guys go on sat.. they generally go for one innning
There is not a team in the State that can play 4-5 games in one weekend and not overwork a pitcher. I do not care how much is said about protecting their arms. The only thing that would work is pitch counts, but then you literally would run out of players and have to forfeit. Extending the days of the tournaments, or better yet making it a travel league where you play everyone for a three game series would be cheaper and more beneficial to the players
now one thing is certain despite going to speed and strength training kids today are generally no where near as conditioned nor acclimated to heat as kids from 10,20, 30 and 40 years ago... years ago kids spend all summer riding their bikes all over creation or playing outside... today's air conditioned babies zonk out after one game in the heat and YES 3 games at 3,6 or 8 then trotting little bobby out to pitch in game 4 late on sunday when he is fatiqued as heck.. is asking for trouble.. which is one reason I like sitting a pitcher in the game before he was gonna start... but some daddies don't like that.
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:30 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:ok, it shouldnt.
late 70s in an a parish championship tourney we was the SAME pitcher for all three games in the same weekend - he pitched complete games for all three - that shite don't happen no more
But being overthrown for one weekend a year with recovery is better than being overthrown in tournaments every weekend for 12 weekends a year, with practice between.
Three innings on Saturday and get after it on Sunday.
30 warm up pitches prior to game, 7 per inning is 51 pitches. Throw 15 live in each inning(conservative) and you got 96 pitches on Saturday. On Sunday you probably get up to 125 easy. That is too many on developing arms and it really isnt debatable. There is not one orthopedic surgeon in the country that will tell you it is a good idea. In alot of instances the first game is pitched at 5pm on Saturday and circled back and chunking it again at 10 AM Sunday morning. I watch alot of USSSA Major teams, I dont see ice on arms or any recovery work either. The kid goes from pitching straight to another position.
It is a problem.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:37 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:You are being a little disingenious here. You know for a fact that the majority of Sat pitchers are stopped at 3 innings on Sat to save them for need on Sunday. You also know that the stud Sunday pitchers sometimes cant find the plate and get yanked. Putting the Saturday guys back in the rotation. I dont blame the coaches, it is the system they have been given. The system needs to change, and the only way they can do that is to change the formats of the competitions.
yes... most well run teams / programs have separate guys for pitching on saturday and sunday.. and if said sunday guys go on sat.. they generally go for one innning
quote:If you have that luxury, it is a great idea. Catcher too in my opinion. But you dont see most travel teams carry large rosters. Lets face it, no one really wants to travel to Mobile to watch Bobby ride pine half the time. That is the biggest issue caused by parents in my opinion, their desire to see the kid on the field limits rosters.
which is one reason I like sitting a pitcher in the game before he was gonna start... but some daddies don't like that.
And it is still Hughes fault for not being a good bunter.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:38 pm to Jim Rockford
Travel ball is killing young pitching arms.
They are playing 5/6 games over a weekend and some do it year round.
They are playing 5/6 games over a weekend and some do it year round.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:40 pm to oOoLsUtIgErSoOo
My suggestion is simple. If you do not like the post. Do not read. Do not reply
It makes you look more foolish than the poster
We do not know them all but.... we owe them all
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:40 pm to tigerfoot
tigerfoot I agree with the limited roster but the team I am coaching now...
every kid on the roster has pitched significant innings....
have yet to throw a kid more than two innings on a sat and pitch him on sunday.....
and there are some tourneys that are going with 35 pitches then one day of rest rules...
yep parents are a huge part of the issue not the system.....
every kid on the roster has pitched significant innings....
have yet to throw a kid more than two innings on a sat and pitch him on sunday.....
and there are some tourneys that are going with 35 pitches then one day of rest rules...
yep parents are a huge part of the issue not the system.....
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:42 pm to nicholastiger
quote:very very few play year round....
They are playing 5/6 games over a weekend and some do it year round.
majority of teams play 3 games per weekend.....
if you don't think those young arms were getting torn up years ago you are naive
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:45 pm to choupiquesushi
Congrats to you. I hope you can continue to protect all your players.
But please answer honestly, are all teams doing it that way?
You know they are not. Many time these young pitchers have a very hard time finding the zone.
Hell, when you go to pitch count tourney pitchers get pulled in and out on Saturday like a turnstile. This reinforces how quick you can get to 35 pitches.
But please answer honestly, are all teams doing it that way?
You know they are not. Many time these young pitchers have a very hard time finding the zone.
Hell, when you go to pitch count tourney pitchers get pulled in and out on Saturday like a turnstile. This reinforces how quick you can get to 35 pitches.
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