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To defer or not to defer? LSU Coin Toss Results (Kelly Era)
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:37 pm
Ok, so the whole point of this post is to present data and start a discussion (calm and rational, I'm sure) about this. My personal stance is that you should defer if you win the toss, but it's not really a big deal either way. With that out of the way... the data!
Thus far LSU is 25-8 (.758) in the Brian Kelly era.
In the Kelly era, LSU has won the toss 16 times and lost the toss 17 times. (48.5 toss win %) - essentially the toss is 50/50 (surprise!)
Of the 16 times LSU has won the toss Kelly has elected to receive 10 times (62.5%). LSU is 6-4 (.600) in those games. Of the 6 times LSU has won the toss and deferred we are 4-2 (.667). Overall, LSU is 10-6 when we win the toss.
Conversely, LSU is 15-2 (.882) when we lose the toss. LSU is 10-2 (.833) when the opposing team wins the toss and elects to defer and LSU is 5-0 (1.000) when the opposing team wins the toss and elects to receive.
Irrespective of coin toss result, when LSU starts on offense we are 16-6 (.727) and when LSU starts on defense we are 9-2 (.818).
Now for some more zoomed in results.
LSU scores on 30% (3 of 10; 2 TD and 1 FG) of their possessions when we win the toss and choose to receive. LSU scores on 41.67% (5 of 12; 5 TD) of their possessions when the opponent wins the toss and chooses to defer. Overall, LSU scored 8 of 22 (36.36%) times we received the opening kickoff.
Opponents score on 66.67% (4 of 6; 4 TD) of their possessions when we win the toss and choose to defer. Opponents score on 40% (2 of 5; 2 TD) of their possessions when they win the toss and choose to receive. Overall, opponents scored 6 of 11 (54.54%) times they received the opening kickoff.
When LSU wins the toss and chooses to defer (6 games), we have the ball in the last possession of 1st half 50% of the time (3 of 6) but have only scored 1 time (16.67%). When the opponent wins the toss and chooses to receive (5 games), LSU has the last possession 60% (3 of 5) of the time and scores 40% (2 of 5).
When LSU wins the toss and chooses to receive (10 games), we have the last possession of the 1st half 30% (3 of 10) of the time and score 20% (2 of 10) of the time. When the opponent wins the toss and chooses to defer (12 games), LSU has the last possession of the 1st half 33.33% (4 of 12) of the time and scored 16.67% (2 of 12) of the time.
Of the 6 times LSU has won the toss and deferred, we have scored on our opening drive of the 2nd half 66.67% (4 of 6; all TDs) of the time. Of the 5 times an opponent won the toss and elected to receive, LSU scored on our opening drive of the 2nd half 40% (2 of 5) of the time. Coincidentally, LSU was unable to "double up" in any of the instances where we kickoff to start the game. The only instance was against Georgia St. where they chose to receive after winning the toss.
Lastly, only Tennessee (2022) was able to "double up" LSU after we won the toss and chose to receive - LSU lost. Bama (2022; 2 FGs) and A&M (2023; 2 TDs) were the only team to "double up" LSU when they won the toss and chose to defer - LSU won both games.
I know this image is a little hard to see, but here's the data table I pulled together based on the game notes from LSUSports.net. I left some notes to give an idea of what happened towards the end of the 1st half (e.g., Purdue punts with 20 sec left and LSU kneels, I considered the last possession to be Purdue punting). I also highlighted the 5 instances where an opposing coach won the toss and chose to receive.
TL;DR: LSU should just hope to lose the toss because we win 88.2% of our games when we do.
Thus far LSU is 25-8 (.758) in the Brian Kelly era.
In the Kelly era, LSU has won the toss 16 times and lost the toss 17 times. (48.5 toss win %) - essentially the toss is 50/50 (surprise!)
Of the 16 times LSU has won the toss Kelly has elected to receive 10 times (62.5%). LSU is 6-4 (.600) in those games. Of the 6 times LSU has won the toss and deferred we are 4-2 (.667). Overall, LSU is 10-6 when we win the toss.
Conversely, LSU is 15-2 (.882) when we lose the toss. LSU is 10-2 (.833) when the opposing team wins the toss and elects to defer and LSU is 5-0 (1.000) when the opposing team wins the toss and elects to receive.
Irrespective of coin toss result, when LSU starts on offense we are 16-6 (.727) and when LSU starts on defense we are 9-2 (.818).
Now for some more zoomed in results.
LSU scores on 30% (3 of 10; 2 TD and 1 FG) of their possessions when we win the toss and choose to receive. LSU scores on 41.67% (5 of 12; 5 TD) of their possessions when the opponent wins the toss and chooses to defer. Overall, LSU scored 8 of 22 (36.36%) times we received the opening kickoff.
Opponents score on 66.67% (4 of 6; 4 TD) of their possessions when we win the toss and choose to defer. Opponents score on 40% (2 of 5; 2 TD) of their possessions when they win the toss and choose to receive. Overall, opponents scored 6 of 11 (54.54%) times they received the opening kickoff.
When LSU wins the toss and chooses to defer (6 games), we have the ball in the last possession of 1st half 50% of the time (3 of 6) but have only scored 1 time (16.67%). When the opponent wins the toss and chooses to receive (5 games), LSU has the last possession 60% (3 of 5) of the time and scores 40% (2 of 5).
When LSU wins the toss and chooses to receive (10 games), we have the last possession of the 1st half 30% (3 of 10) of the time and score 20% (2 of 10) of the time. When the opponent wins the toss and chooses to defer (12 games), LSU has the last possession of the 1st half 33.33% (4 of 12) of the time and scored 16.67% (2 of 12) of the time.
Of the 6 times LSU has won the toss and deferred, we have scored on our opening drive of the 2nd half 66.67% (4 of 6; all TDs) of the time. Of the 5 times an opponent won the toss and elected to receive, LSU scored on our opening drive of the 2nd half 40% (2 of 5) of the time. Coincidentally, LSU was unable to "double up" in any of the instances where we kickoff to start the game. The only instance was against Georgia St. where they chose to receive after winning the toss.
Lastly, only Tennessee (2022) was able to "double up" LSU after we won the toss and chose to receive - LSU lost. Bama (2022; 2 FGs) and A&M (2023; 2 TDs) were the only team to "double up" LSU when they won the toss and chose to defer - LSU won both games.
I know this image is a little hard to see, but here's the data table I pulled together based on the game notes from LSUSports.net. I left some notes to give an idea of what happened towards the end of the 1st half (e.g., Purdue punts with 20 sec left and LSU kneels, I considered the last possession to be Purdue punting). I also highlighted the 5 instances where an opposing coach won the toss and chose to receive.

TL;DR: LSU should just hope to lose the toss because we win 88.2% of our games when we do.

This post was edited on 10/17/24 at 9:42 am
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:39 pm to TFS4E
This is the one that Kelly needs to just adapt to.
Just defer......every time.
Just defer......every time.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:44 pm to CBandits82
judging from that 15-2 record when losing the toss, maybe we just need to try and lose the toss every game?
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:44 pm to TFS4E
Bravo sir! Excellent work. Always great to have actual data to back up opinions
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:45 pm to Portcityblues
quote:
judging from that 15-2 record when losing the toss, maybe we just need to try and lose the toss every game?
That ended up being my TL;DR for the post. Let's just lose the toss and win 88%+ of the time.

Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:51 pm to TFS4E
BK has said his reasoning for taking the ball first is that the team that scores first wins “x” percentage of games (I don’t remember the exact number). So the stat he should pay attention to is the fact we only score 20% of the time when taking the ball first if I’m understanding the breakdown correctly.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:55 pm to GeauxDJ74
Still can’t believe this moron won’t defer. We have to hope the other team is even more ignorant and decides to take the ball first.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 2:55 pm to GeauxDJ74
quote:
So the stat he should pay attention to is the fact we only score 20% of the time when taking the ball first if I’m understanding the breakdown correctly.
8 of 22 or 36.36% of the time. I will add that to OP, thanks.

Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:00 pm to TFS4E
Did you compile this data on your own accord? If so, I think I'm kind of impressed while simultaneously wondering why you would spend so much time on this. You should submit your data to the athletic office or put it under Woodward and Kellys windshield wiper at the ops bldg
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:01 pm to Shaq4prez
quote:
Did you compile this data on your own accord? If so, I think I'm kind of impressed while simultaneously wondering why you would spend so much time on this. You should submit your data to the athletic office or put it under Woodward and Kellys windshield wiper at the ops bldg
Yeah, I kept seeing threads about it and I got curious what the actual data said.
I never thought I was autistic but now I am starting to wonder.

Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:09 pm to TFS4E
Win or lose the coin toss should be ignored. What's the data for scoring percentage for both teams' first drive of each half. If I did the math correctly, LSU has a combined, ignoring who won the toss, .818 winning percentage when going on defense to start the game and .727 when going on offense to start the game.
Is it easier to score from the 25 after the opening kickoff, or force a punt or turnover on defense and have better field position? That has to be considered when evaluating who scores first.
Is it easier to score from the 25 after the opening kickoff, or force a punt or turnover on defense and have better field position? That has to be considered when evaluating who scores first.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:13 pm to TFS4E
This...is the most incredible post I've ever seen. I salute you.

Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:15 pm to CubsFanBudMan
quote:
Win or lose the coin toss should be ignored. What's the data for scoring percentage for both teams' first drive of each half. If I did the math correctly, LSU has a combined, ignoring who won the toss, .818 winning percentage when going on defense to start the game and .727 when going on offense to start the game.
That's reasonable - I will add the receive vs kick overall to the OP.

Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:17 pm to TFS4E
Is there any way to know whether the coin toss results have anything to do with win/loss in closely matched teams?
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:22 pm to CBandits82
I'm over it
He's gonna do it how he wants to do it
I do prefer to get the ball coming out of halftime because you never know how the end of the first half will turn out but in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't matter
these sec games are all gonna be close unless you just have a bad day where you turn the ball over and play sloppy
He's gonna do it how he wants to do it
I do prefer to get the ball coming out of halftime because you never know how the end of the first half will turn out but in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't matter
these sec games are all gonna be close unless you just have a bad day where you turn the ball over and play sloppy
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:23 pm to TFS4E
Great stuff. It sure seems like LSU has won a majority of tosses. Maybe just the big games.
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:23 pm to LSUStar
quote:
Is there any way to know whether the coin toss results have anything to do with win/loss in closely matched teams?
I could probably do something like "SEC Only" but even then do you define all of those games as closely matched? A couple examples, Miss State has been pretty bad the last 3 years but on the flipside we were outclassed by UGA in the SEC Champ game. Are those evenly matched?
You would also take out some of our OOC games that were probably more evenly matched than some of our SEC games.
Do you have an idea?
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:29 pm to Portcityblues
quote:
maybe we just need to try and lose the toss every game?
Just as hard as winning every toss!
Posted on 10/16/24 at 3:29 pm to TFS4E
In my opinion, this whole thing is being blown out of proportion by some fans...
Historically, LSU has been very successful when deferring.
Historically, LSU has been very successful.
Historically, LSU has had a very stout defense.
With that defense, you were likely to get a stop, and play the field position game. You then also got the ball to start the second half, with the idea that in-game and halftime adjustments give you an edge to have a good first drive. Getting the 2 possessions in a row (end of first, start of second halves) is a nice concept that may or may not happen; I doubt you plan for it. Your opponent is just as likely to have the ball at the end of the first half as you are.
OK, that being said, this isn't a historical LSU team. We haven't had a dominant defense, really since 2018 (2019 we gave up some serious points and just outscored people). We have a solid offense (good QB play, the run has been needing a bump since 2019). At times the defense has been downright sketchy.
The idea, then, seems to be to receive, and set the tone that way. Move the ball at least to midfield, play field possession that way. And then it appears to make the defensive adjustments at half to try to force a 3 and out on the opening possession, and get better position that way.
That's a viable position to take, just as much as deferring is. It's simply playing to your perceived strengths, and hoping you can coach up a stop coming out of the half.
Historically, LSU has been very successful when deferring.
Historically, LSU has been very successful.
Historically, LSU has had a very stout defense.
With that defense, you were likely to get a stop, and play the field position game. You then also got the ball to start the second half, with the idea that in-game and halftime adjustments give you an edge to have a good first drive. Getting the 2 possessions in a row (end of first, start of second halves) is a nice concept that may or may not happen; I doubt you plan for it. Your opponent is just as likely to have the ball at the end of the first half as you are.
OK, that being said, this isn't a historical LSU team. We haven't had a dominant defense, really since 2018 (2019 we gave up some serious points and just outscored people). We have a solid offense (good QB play, the run has been needing a bump since 2019). At times the defense has been downright sketchy.
The idea, then, seems to be to receive, and set the tone that way. Move the ball at least to midfield, play field possession that way. And then it appears to make the defensive adjustments at half to try to force a 3 and out on the opening possession, and get better position that way.
That's a viable position to take, just as much as deferring is. It's simply playing to your perceived strengths, and hoping you can coach up a stop coming out of the half.
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