re: This McMahon vs Wade thing is stupid

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Ever heard of Tari Eason, Darius Days, Javonte Smart, Trendon Watford?

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Days is one that improved, and Smart got better by his last year. Eason came in ready to play day 1, but I guess you are going to claim that Wade developed him in a month?

Watford didn't really get any better year 1 to year 2 as I recall. The irony is how he is playing as a point guard in the NBA, which is something none of us saw coming when he was here.

Because he’s completely dishonest. Thats why

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Mcmahom can develop talent

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Many of Wade's players improved as they matured

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Hahahahaha.

Like I said, ignorant af.

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And I loved Reath, and yes he's played a bit in the NBA but cmon man - so you're basing that WW inherited a talented team because they had a very, very raw Duop Reath and a freshman in Mays who was not at all ready for this level at that time?

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There's also multiple other players on that roster who are either currently playing overseas/G-League or were for a period of time.

One thing I can say positively about JJ was that he was a good recruiter and never shy of talent. (Minus Tuba player ) I think that's a big reason WHY I dislike JJ so much (and why almost every LSU fan dislikes him too). Some of the most talented LSU rosters the past couple decades just to do frick all with them. It's not like he was Trent and couldn't recruit. It was frustrating getting excited over a JJ recruiting class just for our team to underperform year after year.

But imma be real.. The team Wade inherited was MUCH better than a 2 win SEC team. If posters can shite on McMahon for underachieving and only having 2 SEC wins despite having a roster more talented than that (as they should), why can't we acknowledge that the last JJ was better than 2 SEC wins? Especially when the roster JJ had/Wade inherited was MUCH better than the team MM fielded in year 1!

JJ 2 win SEC team = barren cupboard
MM 2 win SEC team = underachieving should have been a bubble team


Why can't we just acknowledge that JJ's final roster grossly underperformed, and was much better on paper than 2 SEC wins. Why do we have to act like that 2 win roster was a reflection of the talent when it wasn't. Why do we have this double standard, why can't we just be unbiased? It's why discussing this shite with y'all gets so frustrating. Hardly anyone is unbiased one way or the other.

It's not like it was an untalented roster. JJ just couldn't do shite with good players. It's no insult to Wade to say that. He took that roster and made it better and got even more out of those players. One of Wade's best attributes as a coach was player development imo. Just look at Tari Eason. But it's not like he had to start at rock bottom.

Wade is a good coach and I've NEVER said otherwise.. but we don't have to make it seem like he inherited frick all to prop him up even more. The pedestal everyone puts him on is tall enough already. Give it a break please.

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Wade was a good coach

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agreed

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Wade was a great recruiter

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agreed

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Many of Wade's players improved as they matured

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agreed

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Wade f**ked up and got caught

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I would say he got unlucky more than he "fricked up". When has the FBI, before or since, EVER investigated college basketball recruiting. What Wade was "allegedly" doing wasn't unprecedented in college basketball. In fact, it was more of the norm at the major conf. level. The absurd investigation was the unprecedented aspect.

Regardless, he got caught

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Wade was let go for a number of reasons. And NO ONE can factually say whether those reasons were justified or not.

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Agreed.

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Mcmahon was hired and inherited a team wit ZERO players and the the threat of sanctions hanging over the program.

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He inherited a team where he had no player 100% committed to playing for LSU...at the time. But they weren't committed to anyone else at the time either.

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Therefore Mcmahon's team sucked his first year.

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Regardless of what he inherited in April, by the time games started in October he had a FULL roster. Some try to make it sound like he was forced to have open try outs at the fraternity houses for players. LSU went into the season with a roster. And it was a roster that EVERYONE who followed college basketball for a living projected was good enough to be middle of the pack in the SEC. Some (including prominent names you know) even projected LSU could be a potential NCAA Tournament team.

So the suggestion the reason he had a terrible season was solely because he had "no talent" is complete one-sided revisionist history. It could have easily been a result of a terrible coaching job. The reality likely lies in between. LSU's talent level was probably overrated going into the season, but McMahon's poor coaching made the results worse than they probably should have been. There is a vast difference between falling a bit short of preseason expectations and being one of the worst major conference teams in the nation.

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Mcmahon's second year has shown improvement.

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Agreed.

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Mcmahon is a good coach.

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TBD. He's 29-32 at LSU. That's not "good" by any measurement. That's not to say he can't improve that record (and all signs are pointing to that happening). But whether or not he is a "good coach" is still unknown.

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Mcmahom can develop talent

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Also TBD...mostly because he's only been at LSU for less than two full seasons. Ward has been good. Reed has been marginally better than last year...but not a ton. The other two freshmen he signed in his first class are no longer on the team. From a transfer perspective, the only guys who returned from last season are Fountain, Wilkinson, and Hannibal. They are probably about the same players they were last season.

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Mcmahon can be a great recruiter? Remains to be seen but he isn't terrible at this time either. Just needs to hit some homeruns in the portal.

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I think he has been above-average as a HS recruiter. He's not getting multiple top 30 players to LSU, but he's signed almost as many top 100 players (5) as Wade did in his first 3 seasons (6).


McMahon faced a unique situation of taking over for a HC who had the most sustained success in the program in 3 decades and most fans did not want to see leave. Thus, there is ALWAYS going to be a natural comparison. That's not unique to LSU fans. Les Miles wasn't as good as Nick Saban...until he was (at least temporarily from about 2007-2011). Every baseball coach has been compared to Skip Bertman, and their favorability rating among the fans has gone up and down relative to their on-field success.

If McMahon starts winning consistently the fans will love him. But until that happens people will be skeptical and remain frustrated the AD removed the coach they actually saw win, consistently, at LSU and has immediately turned around a nothing program just two hours down the road.

I don't think anyone who is an LSU basketball fan wants McMahon to fail. Many are just unwilling to give complete and unconditional support to a coach who hasn't proved he can win consistently, or is better than his predecessor yet. If/when he does so the opinion of him will change.

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Mays was a sophomore when Wade started. Yes Mays had a subpar freshman year, but it was mostly about layups rimming out. You could definitely see the speed and handles.

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That's convenient.

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He was solid his 2nd year when the game slowed down for him.

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He was better, but he still played out of control way too much IMHO.

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I would credit Wade but I don't recall another player developing under Wade,

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Hell, Reath developed under Wade, much better player his second year.
Tari Eason was a seldom used bench player for a middling Cincinnati team and under WW became a mid-first round pick. I could go on, but our disagreement was as to WW inhereted a talented team....and still you have not convinced me he did.

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And there were other players besides Mays and Reath.

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There were, they just weren't very talented -at least for the level they were playing.

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. And Hannibal is a much better player than he was last year and at the beginning of the year. He has taken over the PG spot and is turning the ball over way less than he was at the beginning of he year. He is playing the warrior majority of the minutes and has even stepped up his rebounding which was a weakness for this team

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Agreed

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There we go with that MUCH again - obviously we disagree and that's o.k. I don't think we're going to.

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Nothing wrong with respectfully disagreeing.

To clarify, I say the word "much" more so to stress how bad the roster MM fielded last year was rather than to say how good the roster Wade inherited was. I don't know how anyone "who followed CBB for a living" thought we could make the NCAAT with those guys. Juice Hill, Justice Williams, Kendal Coleman, Cam Hayes surely are NCAAT talent.

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Tari Eason was a seldom used bench player 18 mpg, played in every game, 3rd in shot attempts on team and leading rebounder = "seldom used bench player"? Don't know why he was splitting minutes with the other big guy, but it would be a stretch to say "seldom used".

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And how many points and rebounds did he average at cincy vs lsu????

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He inherited a team where he had no player 100% committed to playing for LSU...at the time. But they weren't committed to anyone else at the time either.

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This is not true at all. Most of the best players in america were 100% committed by the time McMahon was hired. Basketball recruiting isn't full of flips like football.