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The relies on his coordinators criticism is tired
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:39 pm
Did Miles not heavily rely on his coordinators? Of course he did. He wasn't an offensive mind or good play caller and he certainly wasn't good at clock management. The fact is most head coaches heavily rely on their coordinators. There are only a handful if that who don't. What Miles could do was motivate and recruit. I think Orgeron can do the same. The difference is we now have a head coach who understands his faults and weaknesses and attempts to address them. No one can deny this team has improved and they're playing hard. It's unfair not to tecognize Orgeron as part of the reason for that. It's time for this fan base to galvanize and help this regime take it to the next level.
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Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:41 pm to jwill37
quote:Or if he doesn't the AD calls a meeting and wraps his knuckles with a ruler.
The difference is we now have a head coach who understands his faults and weaknesses and attempts to address them.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:43 pm to jwill37
Most coaches were coordinators at some point but not all. Dabo urban Miles weren't. And tbey are 3 of the winningest coaches in the modern era. I see O as the same type of coaxh as miles. Players coach who can recruit. Miles coached oline O dline. CEO types.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:46 pm to TheHat7
Miles was OC at Okie State for a few years under Bob Simmons before he went to Dallas
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:48 pm to jwill37
Most elite coaches (a.k.a. coaches who win championships) lock down one side of the ball so there is always that consistency. Obviously, more is needed to be a good head coach and some coaches can be successful by being a unifying, inspiring generalist. The problem with O, particularly when things were tough earlier in the year, was that he wasn't a unifier. Honestly, if he is not the guy inspiring people, having their back, instilling confidence and trust as a manager, even if he is not qualified as an OC or DC, he won't succeed long term. It's going to take more than throwing money at elite OCs and DCs to get them to come here. You might be tired of hearing it, but that's reality.
I hope things have gotten better between O and Canada (and hopefully Aranda is ok) but if they aren't, it really is all on Orgeron because LSU is paying him $3M+ to be an inspirational, elite manager. If things unravel, LSU has a greater chance of recovering by simply firing O and promoting Aranda to HC rather than getting rid of either coordinator.
I hope things have gotten better between O and Canada (and hopefully Aranda is ok) but if they aren't, it really is all on Orgeron because LSU is paying him $3M+ to be an inspirational, elite manager. If things unravel, LSU has a greater chance of recovering by simply firing O and promoting Aranda to HC rather than getting rid of either coordinator.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:50 pm to TheHat7
Posted on 11/9/17 at 4:52 pm to Manswers
quote:This.
The problem with O, particularly when things were tough earlier in the year, was that he wasn't a unifier. Honestly, if he is not the guy inspiring people, having their back, instilling confidence and trust as a manager, even if he is not qualified as an OC or DC, he won't succeed long term.
The only thing that saved the impending total trainwreck was getting to play one of the worst florida teams since the 80s.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:03 pm to jwill37
quote:
The relies on his coordinators criticism is tired
No, it's not only accurate but it seems to be the one positive that keeps being brought up by national media when they talk about him. As if standing on the sideline with his microphone raised 90% of the time is some new and wonderful genius move by a head coach.
What actually needs to be addressed is the bullshite suggestion that all LSU fans wanted a coach that would do just that. Stand around and allow his coordinators to do everything on their sides of the ball. No...that's false. That only became so after 2008 when it became very clear that Miles was putting the brakes on the offense out of fear of turning the ball over a ton. Things got VERY conservative (save for the Mett years) and parts of 2011 and THEN fans started bitching about too much input from Miles. Before then Not a peep about our head football coach being too involved...because things were great.
As for my take and why I keep hammering this point home...it's NOT for a desire to not give him credit. It's because I happen to think this system is plain and simple unsustainable without a head guy who is the visionary and program builder on at least one side of the ball. THAT'S the problem for me, because the reliance is on perpetually having to hire the best in the business to make up for the head guy's lack of expertise and then worrying about how long each new coordinator will take to install the "new" system he brings with him.
This seems like a recipe for perpetually being close but never there, and it leaves us in a position of basically never being able to judge our program TODAY because TOMORROW will always be the date at which a true judgement can be made.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:07 pm to clamdip
My point is simply most coaches rely heavily on coordinators. Coach O could be an elite D Line coach and that would have a significant impact on our success as well. I'm not trying to convince you Orgeron is a top 5 or 10 coach. I'm saying he could be good at motivating, recruiting, game planning, clock management and coaching d lineman and that could still lead to great success so who gives a shite if he also relies on his coordinators to do their part. I just think our fan base needs to get behind him and also recognize his successes as opposed to just solely focusing on our struggles. Give him a chance to work them out and if he can't he'll be gone in 3 years.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:10 pm to clamdip
LSU pays top dollar for both the offensive and defensive coordinator. When they makes as much essentially as the head coach, its very telling. Way more than everyone else essentially
The reality is O isn't a specialist on either offense or defense. While he has coached a D line he has never been a defensive coordinator and handled that entire unit.
What I worry about is what happens once we start the coordinator carousel. Sure it looks okay at the moment but the carousel of coordinators doesn't seem like a very successful long term option
The reality is O isn't a specialist on either offense or defense. While he has coached a D line he has never been a defensive coordinator and handled that entire unit.
What I worry about is what happens once we start the coordinator carousel. Sure it looks okay at the moment but the carousel of coordinators doesn't seem like a very successful long term option
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:17 pm to jwill37
this criticism is from people that don't know how real football works. they only see our coach on the sidelines on Saturday and since they hate him they proclaim all he does in his job is stand on the sideline and let the coordinators do the work.
these people have NO IDEA what coach O does. they have no idea what any HC does. they somehow assume other HC's actually coach their arse off during practice. actually I bet coach O does coach the DL some. sure, some coaches are QB coaches but most coaches do the same stuff O does.
there is no question in my mind that O knows football and can bring this team back to the elite level. will he do it? only time will tell but I do know I am witnessing a better coached team than the one Miles was presiding over his last few years.
these people have NO IDEA what coach O does. they have no idea what any HC does. they somehow assume other HC's actually coach their arse off during practice. actually I bet coach O does coach the DL some. sure, some coaches are QB coaches but most coaches do the same stuff O does.
there is no question in my mind that O knows football and can bring this team back to the elite level. will he do it? only time will tell but I do know I am witnessing a better coached team than the one Miles was presiding over his last few years.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:19 pm to LSU GrandDad
Who are the successful head coaches who wouldn't be at least as good as either his defensive or offensive coordinator (depending upon his specialty)?
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:19 pm to jwill37
We’re stuck HOPING the O experiment works all because Alleva had no clue when conducting the search. And the BOS was just as lost in the process.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:23 pm to Lebowski
I think the reality of this hire is we won't truly know until years two or three
Me personally, I expected O would be fine his first year or two then we would see a fall in year 3. I hope I am wrong but it will all depend if O's recruiting strategy works out and if we will have stability at coordinator position.
This program was in a pretty good shape when O and the staff took over, it certainly was far from a wreck.
Me personally, I expected O would be fine his first year or two then we would see a fall in year 3. I hope I am wrong but it will all depend if O's recruiting strategy works out and if we will have stability at coordinator position.
This program was in a pretty good shape when O and the staff took over, it certainly was far from a wreck.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:30 pm to Tigerbait357
quote:
What I worry about is what happens once we start the coordinator carousel. Sure it looks okay at the moment but the carousel of coordinators doesn't seem like a very successful long term option
I would wait and worry when / if it happens and then judge the results
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:51 pm to jwill37
quote:
The difference is we now have a head coach who understands his faults and weaknesses and attempts to address them
Man stop reaching
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:51 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Who are the successful head coaches who wouldn't be at least as good as either his defensive or offensive coordinator (depending upon his specialty)?
impossible to answer that question. but I can say i'm damn glad les miles wasn't our offensive coordinator. or was he?
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:52 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
these people have NO IDEA what coach O does. they have no idea what any HC does. they somehow assume other HC's actually coach their arse off during practice.
with O, we’re not really assuming.
HE told us, the media told us, and Alleva told us.
no i can’t speak on how other coaches do it.
but i can say that our situation is unique in that i know of no other program that openly admits (to the point of almost bragging) that their head coach is almost completely hands off the offense and defense on gameday.
will this work and be sustainable long term?
who the hell knows.
but to not have any concerns would be shortsighted.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 5:54 pm to ATLTiger
quote:
Miles was OC at Okie State for a few years under Bob Simmons before he went to Dallas
I'm not sure how LSU fans dont know this.
Posted on 11/9/17 at 6:01 pm to rbdallas
quote:
I would wait and worry when / if it happens and then judge the results
You mean wait until we fail to decide if we failed? Like Texas and Tenn? USC? notre dame?
The point is, LSU needs the 'surest thing' we can get. We dont need a 'lets wait and see if he's any good' coach. It sounds logical in theory, but once you get to that point, it WILL take 5-7 years to dig out.
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