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re: The Final Series: A Series of Pictures
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:59 am to just me
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:59 am to just me
quote:
to assume
Since you are merely assuming JJ calling for the snap before time expires; i'm going to assume this scenario:
JJ goes in with one play (coaching stupidity).
2nd down occurs gets tackled and does not score.
Gets up and panics (tick, tick-tick, tick-tick-tick).
Starts looking towards the sideline (see above), the coaches panic because the QB on the field has no idea what to do. Send in subs for one last play.
quote:
Yes, I am speculating as to what Jefferson would have done. I am speculating that Jefferson would have done what he is supposed to have done.
Oh! you mean like getting up on second down and lining his team up to either spike the ball or possibly run his own pass play? Let's just assume or speculate this as well.
Instead what we did get was JJ with a deer in the headlights look
quote:
I don't mean to trash Hebert. He had good intentions. Better to snap early than not at all. However, it would have been far better to trust his QB for another second (0:02) or two (0:01) and give his QB a chance.
Well let's go back to assuming, since you want T-BOB to assume JJ would have actually called for the snap before time expired. Assume he never gets the play off, then what?
A lot of blame to go around on the last play.
I don't blame JJ for being put in the situation. I blame JJ for not having any idea of what to do as a QB once he was tackled.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:59 am to just me
quote:
He was not directly behind the center.
However, he wasn't directly behind the LG or even the LG-C gap. After looking at igoringa's pic, I'd say he was about halfway between the C and the LG-C gap.
Less than a yard to the right, but not directly behind the center.
And, where did the snapped ball go?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:01 pm to just me
quote:
I don't mean to trash Hebert. He had good intentions. Better to snap early than not at all. However, it would have been far better to trust his QB for another second (0:02) or two (0:01) and give his QB a chance.
You have some reading comprehension issues. Les Miles said that Jordan Jefferson called for the ball. How the hell did Hebert snap it early if Jefferson called for it? Enlighten me with your intelligence. And while you are at it why don't you address my direct question to you from earlier in this post that you have chosen to ignore?
If Jefferson already called for the ball he gained _____________ by then looking away at the clock.
Please fill in the blank.
Read this quote from Les Miles:
quote:
The good news is we get that play on the field and we are ready to run the play, the quarterback calls for the ball but no one can hear. The quarterback then goes to look at the clock and loses sight of the ball and there is the fumble.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:01 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
It was also really dumb to use your one running play on Jefferson at the end, rather than Ridley.
this X many numbers
Everyone in the world knew why Jefferson came in for Lee on that play...
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:03 pm to just me
quote:
quote: This should be done on pure instincts. Standing to the side of your line watching your idiot coach conduct a Chinese fire drill AS 20 VALUABLE SECONDS JUST RUN OFF THE CLOCK is just plain and utter stupidity.
Except that you coach is sending in players.
I disagree. He stood there for a good long time before MilesTheMoron started sending in players. As SOON as he didn't make the TD, he should have lined up the players he had on the field and audible to a quick fade route to his tallest receiver with the best vertical leep. Do all of this before your MORON coach even has a chance to conduct his Chinese fire drill.
JJ just stood there like a deer in headlights to the side of the lineman and watched as MilesTheMoron tried to figure out what to do.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:06 pm to Tiger Vision
quote:
Better to snap early than not at all. However, it would have been far better to trust his QB for another second (0:02) or two (0:01) and give his QB a chance.
Everyone seems to be failing in recognizing the obvious, Herbert wouldnt have snapped the ball early if he had faith/trust in Jefferson to call for it with time remaining.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:09 pm to Tiger Vision
quote:
I agree that two plays would be the best option but clock management has not been a strong suit for this QB or staff.
True.
The hierarchy would be the following --
BRAINDEAD - Allowing all :30 of the clock to run out as the center held on to the ball. Without T-Bob, this is what would have happened.
RETARDED - Not getting off one true play as your coach and QB conduct a Chinese Fire Drill and wasting over :26 seconds while the QB tries to figure out what's going on. This is basically what happened at Ole Miss, and what would have happened had UT not had 13 men on the field.
STUPID - Spiking the ball with :26 when you could have EASILY have gotten off 2 plays.
COMMON F'ING SENSE - Do a running play. Have a fade pattern lined up for the second play telling your QB to throw the ball so that ONLY your receiver can catch. Err on the side of overthrowing. Then collect yourself and run a final play on 4th down which could be either a passing play or running play.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:11 pm to just me
I'm sure it's been said, but I'm not reading through this. Every level of football would have had 2 or 3 plays called in the initial huddle. All requiring the same personnel. You don't run on a full package with under 20 seconds to go unless you clock it. It's terrible coaching and terrible game management by both coaches and qb
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:16 pm to hehateme2285
quote:
Every level of football would have had 2 or 3 plays called in the initial huddle. All requiring the same personnel. You don't run on a full package with under 20 seconds to go
this
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:19 pm to just me
quote:
quote: 3) Jefferson's foot is not on the hash mark when the ball is snapped. You're right. My mistake.
You have gone on for two days now saying JJ was lined up behind center when clearly he wasn't, the ball would have dead centered him in the groin if he had been behind the center. Who are you to have the audacity to call others stupid when you blathered on about this singular point.
Why didn't JJ direct Ridley to his spot earlier? IMO, you are still assuming the ball gets snapped after the clap and/or call, which is a dangerous thing to do given history with the play calls or lack thereof.
No one can defend the coaching and player subs, Ridley is a much better power runner than JJ. Jesus Christ, UT starts a f'n 265 tackle on defense because of lack of depth. Alleva should have been disappointed in a lot more than the last 36 seconds.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:22 pm to just me
What happened to Captain JJ Defender?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:25 pm to mtntiger
quote:
Listening to Les and watching the offense over the last few years, it has become obvious that GC does not stay a few plays ahead, like in chess. There is no reason it takes as long as it does to get plays in.
Once we got near the red zone on Saturday, he should have had a few plays in his head ready to call in case we found ourselves in the situation we were in. He was unprepared, and there is no excuse for that. Even worse, our head coach didn't simply call something himself from the sideline.
I think you are right.. Crowton seems to think he's got unlimited time to just pull a play at a time out of his bag of tricks.. it's idiotic!
Again, I am disappointed in Miles.. if anything for even having Crowton in charge during this whole last drive, because he has a history of calling dumb dumb dumb stuff under duress. It's his way...
However, once Miles is aware that 1.) GC is trotting JJ out there 2.) JJ only has one play to call, not two 3.) Now there is a bunch of subbing going on... Where and when did Miles intercede, if at all, and if he didn't, how was he supposed to without burning up more fleeting time?
eta: and also, I think the fact that T-Bob is the one who made sure the ball was snapped before time ran out, whether JJ called for it or not, shows that at least the O-Line was coached up on this situation after the Ole Miss debacle.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:28 pm to Powerman
quote:
After seeing this thread, I think that you've lost it with your blind defense of Jefferson
Germans. He long since lost it. Is he roomates with Dead Fish?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:31 pm to just me
Counselor, have you ever witnessed an SEC QB standing out past the tackle as the final seconds are widing down?
Then why do you give this one a pass?
Then why do you give this one a pass?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:39 pm to just me
I was actually ok with them bringing JJ in on second down. If you look at the game film between 1st and second down, you see that TN made some substitutions with players that had not been on the field for a number of plays -- under such pressure, I think that gives LSU an advantage (slight advantage).
What I am NOT ok with -- when you have less than 30 seconds left in a game, you DAMN well better know exactly what plays you are calling when you are on the 2 yard line. That being said -- if you take out JL and put in JJ -- send his arse in there with 3 PLAYS. "JJ, first try, run the dead-arse option that works 1 out of 10 tries. When that doesn't work, on 3rd down, I want you to throw a bullet to Reuben. After you get done throwing it 5 feet over Reuben's head, I want you to hand it off to Ridley so he can win this game."
That last 30 seconds was NOT JJ's fault. That was pure coaching ineptitude.
<These comments in no way support JJ starting against FL - JL definitely earned a start against the gators. Keep Les. Fire Crowton.>
What I am NOT ok with -- when you have less than 30 seconds left in a game, you DAMN well better know exactly what plays you are calling when you are on the 2 yard line. That being said -- if you take out JL and put in JJ -- send his arse in there with 3 PLAYS. "JJ, first try, run the dead-arse option that works 1 out of 10 tries. When that doesn't work, on 3rd down, I want you to throw a bullet to Reuben. After you get done throwing it 5 feet over Reuben's head, I want you to hand it off to Ridley so he can win this game."
That last 30 seconds was NOT JJ's fault. That was pure coaching ineptitude.
<These comments in no way support JJ starting against FL - JL definitely earned a start against the gators. Keep Les. Fire Crowton.>
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:40 pm to TIsuGGER
quote:
Every level of football would have had 2 or 3 plays called in the initial huddle.
All requiring the same personnel.
You don't run on a full package with under 20 seconds to go unless you clock it.
Yep, thats why the nation laughed at the retardation...
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:43 pm to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
I just think the entire situation goes smoother with Lee.
Even on the final drive, we ran a little hurry up, everything seemed much more organized with Lee.
Earlier on that drive we had a delay of game and had to call a timeout after the penalty. But neither Lee nor Jefferson were the problem on that drive. The problem is an incompetent and disorganized coaching staff that takes three freaking days to substitute players and send in a play.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 12:48 pm to TxHillsTiger
quote:
if you take out JL and put in JJ -- send his arse in there with 3 PLAYS. "JJ, first try, run the dead-arse option that works 1 out of 10 tries. When that doesn't work, on 3rd down, I want you to throw a bullet to Reuben. After you get done throwing it 5 feet over Reuben's head, I want you to hand it off to Ridley so he can win this game."
I LOL'd, but honestly this is a very realistic conversation that they should have had.
quote:
That last 30 seconds was NOT JJ's fault. That was pure coaching ineptitude.
Truer words were never spoken.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 1:14 pm to just me
quote:
Second, there is no compelling strategic reason to sub Jefferson for Lee at the two
LSU on 2nd down went to a power run formation with one back. If you are going to run that, your best chance for success comes with JJ so the D can't zero in on the RB which they would with JL in their. imo
Posted on 10/5/10 at 1:39 pm to TIsuGGER
quote:
There was no way we were getting off two plays. Running a pass play after the clock got past :08 was an exercise in futility. Spiking the ball and setting up with the appropriate personnel is the only answer
bullshite.
We could have easily run two more plays.
All we had to do was:
A) Do not execute a Chinese fire drill on 3rd down with the CLOCK RUNNING. Instead, run a quick pass play with the players you have on the field. If the pass is there and the receiver is open, make the throw. Otherwise, throw it away to stop the clock so we can have time to run a real play on 4th & Goal.
B) Don't send in JJ on 2nd down unless you send him in with instructions to execute A).
The blame for the failure to do both A and B falls solely on the shoulders of the coaching staff and the coaching staff alone.
Blaming JJ makes no sense. The coaches put him in a very bad situation that the coaches CREATED by poor decision making (see failure to execute A and B above). The coaches also allowed us to waste ALL of our timeouts prior to 1st and Goal. JJ is only to blame for not turning to the sideline, extending the double bird and saying "Send those motherfricking subs back so I can audible to a quick pass play or at least spike the ball." In other words, the only thing you can blame JJ for is for not staging a mutiny against his own coaches. By the time the ball was finally snapped, the coaches had so fricked up the situation that JJ's subsequent actions were meaningless. Besides, Tennessee's 13 players pretty much guaranteed that JJ couldn't possibly gain a yard anyway. Dooley's stupidity is the only thing that saved us from our own coaches' complete ineptitude for 36 seconds. 36 seconds so bad that even Alleva was forced to comment on it.
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