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Message
re: Sporting News: Edward Jim Orgeron Jr. is the 15th best coach in America
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:56 am to Goldrush25
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:56 am to Goldrush25
quote:
The most consistent answer is that "He's trying."
Hate to use a cliche' Star Wars reference but "do or do not, there is no try."
Correct. And yeah...he's continually trying to tweak things. In a vacuum that seems like a good thing. Outside of that though, it seems like a guy unwilling or unable to make the correct call the first time. Or second. Under different circumstances, our fan base would be pointing at the complete lack of continuity on the offensive side of the ball the past 4 seasons with the type of concern any reasonable fan base ought to have with this type of revolving door set-up. Under different, and less local circumstances, that is...
quote:
If he went out and got an expert that knows how to do exactly what he said he wanted to do and installed him as OC, then that would be doing.
Instead, he hired Matt Canada. As soon as that didn't immediately start producing results all hell broke lose and we were suddenly met with local media guys being fed talking point about how "Canada is a cancer in the building," and talk about how his offense was a bad fit. And...almost no talk about who hired this cancer and bad fit and no talk about how that happened. And when some of us would mention this, why...we must want him to fail which means we must really be fake LSU fans! Yup...been on LSU message boards since the fall of 1999...lying in wait, for one day when Ed Orgeron (who was merely SC's DL coach then) would become LSU's head coach so I could bash him! Long con, fellas...
quote:
I believe it's because he clearly values something else above getting the best guy for the job, which is distressing.
100%. For all the talk about Miles and hiring his friends, this concern about hiring guys who are prepared to answer "Yes, Coach" is pretty funny.
2
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:57 am to Goldrush25
quote:
How do you come to that conclusion?
Have you ever heard CLM discuss x's and o's?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You need to be inside the program to understand why specific choices are made. You're making choices here and don't know jack shite about the big picture.
We can not have all of the information and still be relatively sure that it was not the best decision that could've been made.
Even experts make poor decisions and we don't need to have all of the information to still come to the conclusion that it was a poor decision.
Do I need to know the entire situation to know that running a full scrimmage during a rain delay is a poor decision? Or do I need to have all of the information on hand to understand why he did what he did?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:59 am to Goldrush25
quote:
You don't need to be a subject matter expert to point out mistakes
Not a person who posts here is informed enough to make a viable decision including you.
It's "pop coaching"
Now, clock management is something that's fairly easy to digest. Big picture schemes, no way.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:00 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
he hired Matt Canada. As soon as that didn't immediately start producing results all hell broke lose and we were suddenly met with local media guys being fed talking point about how "Canada is a cancer in the building," and talk about how his offense was a bad fit
do you think this is wrong?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Now, clock management is something that's fairly easy to digest. Big picture schemes, no way.
But how do you know that he didn't make the very best decision at that time if you don't have all of the information?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:04 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
But how do you know that he didn't make the very best decision at that time if you don't have all of the information?
You don't. Ever
Some things just have fewer variables than others so your chances of narrowing down are greater.
In the end it's all about the numbers. It's 2019, I'll let my opinions develop as the season develops.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:09 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Some things just have fewer variables than others so your chances of narrowing down are greater.
That's fine.
Just the same, you can use history and wisdom of the crowd (or coaching crowd) to reasonably determine that certain decisions that deviate from the mean are poor decisions.
Like I said, scrimmage during a rain delay is a poor decision and I doubt any winning coach has done that before or since. We don't have to know what he was thinking or know any variables to come to that conclusion. Some decisions are just flat out bad and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
This universal deference to coaches just gets absurd at a certain point. They make mistakes, period. And their decision making is not always made with sound logic.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:17 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
do you think this is wrong?
That Canada may have been a prick and his offense was a bad fit?
Both may be 100% true. One may be an exaggeration and the other we may never know due to how little we saw. I honestly don't care about any of it.
What I'm most concerned with in regards to these claims is...how is it possible that Ed Orgeron hired this cancer who was lugging down his terrible offense in the first fricking place? Are we prepared to claim that Matt Canada pulled the wool over Ed's eyes? He pretending not to be abrasive in interviews? Did we then not bother to speak to his former employers, colleagues, etc? Either we did less back ground checking on this candidate than a typical part time job would do, or you're prepared to suggest Canada somehow hoodwinked our coach.
Then there's the offense...which any of us could have seen the previous year while he was at Maryland. Did Orgeron not watch game film of the guy before hiring him? How is it possible that you hire a guy with what is clearly a gimmicky looking offense and THEN declare a few games into his first season that it's a bad fit?
How is it Ed Orgeron comes away unscathed in this entire decision for some of you? He was hired to replace Miles, largely, to fix the offense since that was what most felt was holding the program back. His first swing he brings in a guy who the ops building declare a cancer within weeks AND whose offense was a bad fit. With an entire off season (and let's face it, most of the 2017 season to look around too) he replaces him with...Steve Ensmiger who had not been a full time OC since Bill Clinton was in office and we go 4 weeks in the 2018 with ZERO passing TD's. He now tweaks THIS system by bring in Joe Brady.
Three seasons...three different offenses. How is that a good thing...unless you admit the first two were bad. And if you do, why were they bad...and who is responsible for them being so?
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:18 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
.almost no talk about who hired this cancer and bad fit and no talk about how that happened.
on the contrary, there has been a lot of talk as to why and how that happened both on here and in the media. It really isn't a mystery.
I am not going to get on here and rehash the same old shite, but all you have to do is look at one of the thousand other threads on this same subject if you want to find out the hows and whys of the subject.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:21 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
scrimmage during a rain delay is a poor decision
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:21 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
It really isn't a mystery.
Please feel free to fill us all in.
Who hired Matt Canada with his cancerous attitude and shitty offense knowing the ONE thing which needed to change was LSU's offense?
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:22 pm to GeauxTigerTM
The excuse about Canada is that mean old Alleva made O hire him. Poor Ol' O can't catch a break!
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:24 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Please feel free to fill us all in.
look it up your own self dummy as you seem to be the only one in the dark on this subject. Read one of the thousand other threads on the subject that have been posted over and over about this same subject and all other subjects related to Coach Orgeron and LSU football.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:25 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Please feel free to fill us all in.
Poor old helpless Ed had that SCUMBAG Canada forced on him by Mean Joe Alleva... O is doing his best to right the wrong which was ruthlessly forced on him by a tyrannical Athletic Director. He's done so by hiring the best OC and QB guru in the business in Slinger and the most brilliant young offensive mind in all of football in Jeaux Brady. He still needs at least 3 more recruiting cycles to get all his guys in there to fix Less' frick ups and the stain he left on this program but he's getting there. You better believe he's getting there.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:25 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Are you seriously going to sit here and say that his approach is the optimal approach
Are you seriously going to say that adding another OC to the picture for the third one in three years is the optimal approach. Teams have passing game coordinators. It's not something that LSU just made up. For the kids sake yes after everything that's happened what's happening is the best course of action.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:26 pm to Damone
quote:
The excuse about Canada is that mean old Alleva made O hire him. Poor Ol' O can't catch a break!
So...either Ed Orgeron accidentally hired a shithead with a bad offense, or Ed Orgeron is so weak that despite the fact that Joe Alleva had never been able to make Les Miles hire a new OC he forced Matt Canada on Orgeron?
Yeah...seems like I'd want to go with Door #3 if those were my only excuses.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:27 pm to Damone
quote:
The excuse about Canada is that mean old Alleva made O hire him. Poor Ol' O can't catch a break!
I that an excuse or is it fact? Just curious.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:28 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
look it up your own self dummy as you seem to be the only one in the dark on this subject
I mostly just wanted to see you type out that load of horsehit again...
Tell us more about how Ed couldn't hire "his" guy and our ineffectual AD picked Matt Canada's name out of a hat and forced him on our poor coach.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:29 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Three seasons...three different offenses. How is that a good thing...unless you admit the first two were bad. And if you do, why were they bad...and who is responsible for them being so
Again we're back to accountability yet you still haven't explained how you plan to hold Ed accountable.
Ed will be held accountable the day he's no longer winning games and is fired. Until then I don't see how you can hold him "accountable"
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