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re: Question for football coaches around run schemes?
Posted on 10/10/25 at 10:45 am to JiminyCricket
Posted on 10/10/25 at 10:45 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Gap can be a bit more simple for the offensive line but any pulls or traps require the O lineman to track his defender so he takes a good angle, which is in effect a read of sorts.
Gap also doesn’t require the same level of vision and feel from the backs as Zone. The back may find a cutback lane, but Gap is designed for him to hit a particular hole. In Zone, they have to have the vision and patience find the hole, and the quickness to immediately hit it. We’ve seen both Durham (some) and Jackson (a ton) struggle with this.
1
Posted on 10/10/25 at 10:50 am to JiminyCricket
Posted on 10/10/25 at 9:55 am to fastlane
quote:
Request for Chicken to create a “Scheme Board”. Where we just talk deep technical football.
That would be fun!
BIGGEST CHALK MARK WINS........
quote:
Request for Chicken to create a “Scheme Board”. Where we just talk deep technical football.
That would be fun!
BIGGEST CHALK MARK WINS........
Posted on 10/10/25 at 10:59 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
You can run the same 4-6 plays but motion and formation them in a million different ways. Defenses
I think running most of what you do out of a limited number of formations is easier to pull off for most teams. It does make it easier to disguise if you are good about not tipping your hand in different ways.
An OC can be successful going the opposite way, but it’s hard and you really have to execute well. We all remember Gary Crowton doing this, but when you don’t execute as well and don’t run enough plays out of any given formation, the defense gets to a point where they know you only run certain things out of each formation.
An example of a guy who pulls this off well is Bobby Petrino. He throws out more than the average number of formations for an OC today, but he usually gets good execution from his offense and is creative enough to not let it get predictable. If you execute this properly, it does give a defense a lot to prepare for in a week just trying to cover a volume of different formations. And a guy like him will continue to work mew ones in, which will cause confusion on those plays since the D won’t have seen it on film during prep.
And this doesn’t even touch on personnel groupings. You can run the same basic alignment with 4 wide or 12 personnel and have some of the same plays, but several wrinkles that are unique to each. I think this is one of the great things about 11 personnel if you have a good, versatile TE. You can run every play available in 4 wide pretty much the same, but have an extra blocker in the run game when you prefer, or an extra pass blocker, if needed. It’s really a max versatility grouping with the right TE.
It still all comes down to execution. However, I would prefer a college OC to stick with the first philosophy because of the limited practice time allowed in College Football. There more room for error and less time to perfect using tons of different formations.
This post was edited on 10/10/25 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 10/10/25 at 11:05 am to champj3
After the OM game BK was trying to complement Nuss and said he checked into all the right run calls, or something to that effect. Problem is they are almost all inside zone. D line runs a twist and they end up having one guy unblocked who blows up the play.
On the last drive that we scored on, we came out and ran what looked like gap runs with backside guard pulling. That was the best I’ve seen us run block. Here is to hoping we learned something from that drive and stop all the checks at the line this week.
On the last drive that we scored on, we came out and ran what looked like gap runs with backside guard pulling. That was the best I’ve seen us run block. Here is to hoping we learned something from that drive and stop all the checks at the line this week.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 11:07 am to misey94
quote:
Gap also doesn’t require the same level of vision and feel from the backs as Zone. The back may find a cutback lane, but Gap is designed for him to hit a particular hole. In Zone, they have to have the vision and patience find the hole, and the quickness to immediately hit it. We’ve seen both Durham (some) and Jackson (a ton) struggle with this.
I was pretty disappointed in Durham's vision earlier this year. He made some really nice cuts and reads last year but he had some rocky ones this season for sure.
This post was edited on 10/10/25 at 11:37 am
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:03 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
I was pretty disappointed in Durham's vision earlier this year. He made some really nice cuts and reads last year but he had some rocky ones this season for sure.
It is strange to see how much he’s struggled with that this season over what we saw last year.
I wonder if some of the issue is that we play both zone and gap almost interchangeably. I would love to see us lean into one and really perfect it and use the other as an occasional change up to try and keep the defense off balance.
It seems like we run gap a little better and I think that is more in line with what Alex Atkins likes to run. If he’s really in charge of the run game, then lean harder into gap and start running more counter plays.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:10 pm to misey94
I question how much influence Atkins has over play calls. He’s a gap scheme, counter guy and LSU has run a ton of zone. Particularly Iz.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:12 pm to fastlane
Man, I don’t know near enough to contribute, but I’d have a lot of fun and spend a ton of hours reading a Scheme Board 
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:18 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
I question how much influence Atkins has over play calls. He’s a gap scheme, counter guy and LSU has run a ton of zone. Particularly Iz.
One thing to note is, with more time to prepare, we actually ran some counters vs Clemson. Then maybe 2 or 3 total since then. I’m hoping we see more of Atkins’ stuff out of the Bye Week with the team having some time to work on things.
If we don’t, then we probably aren’t seeing any of Atkins’ stuff this season unless Sloan screws up worse and gets demoted.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:56 pm to OKBoomerSooner
quote:
Man, I don’t know near enough to contribute, but I’d have a lot of fun and spend a ton of hours reading a Scheme Board
It’s all pretty simple honestly, just terminology. You’d catch on quick!
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:59 pm to misey94
quote:
One thing to note is, with more time to prepare, we actually ran some counters vs Clemson. Then maybe 2 or 3 total since then. I’m hoping we see more of Atkins’ stuff out of the Bye Week with the team having some time to work on things. If we don’t, then we probably aren’t seeing any of Atkins’ stuff this season unless Sloan screws up worse and gets demoted.
I don’t disagree, it’s just mind blowing to me if the issue is a difficulty with install. I ran a high school offense and we were able to go between IZ,OZ, GT, Counter, Power & Trap on any given Friday. There’s no way that it’s too much to ask a college lineman to have the fundamentals of gap and zone down, they’re one level away from pro football.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 12:59 pm to champj3
Go watch Jacob Hester and Matt Flynn break this down. The majority of what they run is inside zone. Crazy part is that South Carolina does too. LSU runs ZERO power, ZERO pulling, etc. LSU doesn't run anything in a constant fashion that allows a DE to actually think. Because we never trick them, or show them different things, they play it the same and it ends up being right over 90% of the time.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 3:09 pm to Alt26
quote:
Under Sloan, it appears the approach is to use very few different formations
I know I have seen various coaches and coordinators over the years talk about kind of the opposite plan of what Cublic was talking about: running lots of different plays out of the same formation so that the defense couldn't read it. I guess it varies based on the approach, but I wonder if that's not what Sloan is attempting.
Of course, if you don't execute the play properly it probably doesn't matter how you try to confuse the defense; if the offense is just as confused, it doesn't really help.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 4:05 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
The majority of what they run is inside zone.
We ran a good bit of outside zone in the first three games. We may have run more OZ than IZ vs Clemson.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 6:34 pm to champj3
Single wing or some version of it. Yes, it's an old scheme but it does produce results. It simplifies things for the lineman and put more control on the backs. I'm not saying lineup in a single wing, however, use that concept.
If you think I'm crazy check out Tennessee this year.
If you think I'm crazy check out Tennessee this year.
This post was edited on 10/10/25 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 10/10/25 at 7:30 pm to JiminyCricket
You are exactly right and I have been harping on this all season.
When we 5 see receivers running wide open in other games we watch, it is generally because someone on the defense was confused and made a bad read. LSU doesn't do enough offensively to confuse any defense. If they did, like all great offenses have done, LSU would find some big plays more often. LSU has shown the most constant formations and lack of any imagination whatsoever for 5 games now.
If after 2 weeks and an abysmal offensive showing at OM, LSU doesn't come out with some really 'different' formations, motions, confusing looks, then I have little hope for LSU to win 7 games this year.
If that happens, that should be a major indictment of BK's actual knowledge of offensive football. The clock on his removal should be set in motion.
If he does show something, anything clever and confusing for the defense to digest, then he has a chance to salvage this season.
I keep my fingers crossed every game, but so far, nada.
When we 5 see receivers running wide open in other games we watch, it is generally because someone on the defense was confused and made a bad read. LSU doesn't do enough offensively to confuse any defense. If they did, like all great offenses have done, LSU would find some big plays more often. LSU has shown the most constant formations and lack of any imagination whatsoever for 5 games now.
If after 2 weeks and an abysmal offensive showing at OM, LSU doesn't come out with some really 'different' formations, motions, confusing looks, then I have little hope for LSU to win 7 games this year.
If that happens, that should be a major indictment of BK's actual knowledge of offensive football. The clock on his removal should be set in motion.
If he does show something, anything clever and confusing for the defense to digest, then he has a chance to salvage this season.
I keep my fingers crossed every game, but so far, nada.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 7:39 pm to Alt26
bingeaux 
Posted on 10/10/25 at 7:44 pm to Datbayoubengal
Posted on 10/10/25 at 8:04 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Defenses are so geared to stopping the spread now that if someone lined up in the power I with a real fullback, they would get walked over. Old-school hat on a hat football
Against bad teams, or teams with a weak front 7 it would kill them.
Against a GOOD team it work for a half or so, until they could adjust.
When they adjust you have to go play action.
Also, your RPOs would suddenly open up.
You need to have the ability to pound the ball, and force them to stop it, then counter them when they make the move to stop it.
Unfortunately, our O-line is softer than Charmin and can’t push anyone around so everything else unravels. Even in today’s football you need the ability to own the LOS.
Posted on 10/10/25 at 8:17 pm to champj3
Six plays, split veer. It's like Novacaine
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