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re: Pitching staff injuries
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:45 pm to MountainTiger
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:45 pm to MountainTiger
quote:Arent there multiple studies now showing the rest and limited pitches may actually be contributing to the uptick in arm injuries?
There are always going to be exceptions.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 12:47 pm
2
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:46 pm to lsupride87
quote:
He used to pitch almost every game for his team, and that was the norm back then. He also was throwing breaking balls from the youngest age possible
He may have been throwing more pitches during the season but I doubt he was throwing for as many months as today’s pitchers are.
Also studies have shown that throwing curveballs at a young age has no correlation to arm health.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:47 pm to Hold That Tiger 10
Good link, thank you for that.
Everything I've read is that sliders put the most strain on the elbow when you normalize for velocity. Which is why Dan Warthen kept shredding the Mets pitcher's elbows when he was having them throw sliders as hard as they possibly could.
Everything I've read is that sliders put the most strain on the elbow when you normalize for velocity. Which is why Dan Warthen kept shredding the Mets pitcher's elbows when he was having them throw sliders as hard as they possibly could.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:48 pm to lsufball19
quote:Im not giving you an exception
There will be exceptions to every rule. If we want to throw out random examples, my grandfather thre
I’m giving you an entire generation that used to throw pitches without rest like today and they didn’t have the amount of injuries as you see today
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:49 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:I can attest to this.
Everything I've read is that sliders put the most strain on the elbow
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:50 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
LSU has only had 2 players, that I can think of, since CPM has become the coach at LSU.
I know Cartwright, Walker, Matulis, Norman and Bourgeois did. But that's also over 13 years now as LSU's coach.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:50 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Arent there multiple studies now showing the rest and limited pitches may actually be contributing to the uptick in arm injuries?
I know the Japanese throw their kids for tons of pitches and they throw year around. They have a huge highschool baseball tournament where kids regularly throw every inning of every game with some throwing 600-900pitches over 5 days.
They have a shite ton of elbow problems as well
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:51 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I’m giving you an entire generation that used to throw pitches without rest like today and they didn’t have the amount of injuries as you see today
you gave one example of that generation of someone who didn't have arm problems without really elaborating much to be able to actually compare to today's pitchers. That doesn't prove or disprove really anything.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:51 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Arent there multiple studies now showing the rest and limited pitches may actually be contributing to the uptick in arm injuries?
Probably. Everything is still so unknown.
To this point it's all been trial and error. But with new technology being able to measure much more than ever possible, we may be able to start dialing in ways to build arm strength safely, how to build up to a season safely, and how to maintain throughout a season safely.
There are sleeves that can be worn to measure stress on an elbow while pitching or long tossing or whatever. As this stuff becomes the norm, and people learn to use it responsibly, we may start to see injuries decline.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:52 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I’m giving you an entire generation that used to throw pitches without rest like today and they didn’t have the amount of injuries as you see today
So no pitchers werr hurt then?
You are also leaving out tons of factors for your grandpaw.
You said high level baseball. What does that mean?
You said he was throwing every game. Does that mean one game a week? 5 games a week?
How long was the season, in which he threw every game?
How much baseball did he play? Was it year round? Did he take months off between seasons?
How hard was he throwing? Was he sitting in the mid 90's?
Before playing this high level baseball, how much did he play before then? Was it year round? Was it just baseball season, and move on to the next sport?
Your claims mean nothing, and don't support any sort of proof of anything.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:53 pm to ell_13
quote:
It's my opinion that the increase in elbow injuries is partially, if not mostly, attributed to kids being taught mechanics centered on throwing harder for longer. There's a direct correlation with the increase in UCL tears with the increase of high schoolers throwing 90+ mph.
This was one thing I posted. But it’s not just kids throwing 90. It’s kids throwing in the 60’s and up. Tons of 11,12 yr olds with injuries.
I said...
quote:
quote: stress can be reduced with subtle changes to mechanics. But, even then some people will get hurt. There is no full proof injury prevention plan.
To which you responded...
quote:
The stress has to go somewhere. No one is throwing a baseball without stressing the tendons and ligaments that store the most energy
Your response to my statement would lead me to think you don’t think anything can be done to minimize injuries. I did not say eliminate stress, I said reduce stress.
I’ve seen it done on countless players. Mechanics are evaluated along with a full body assessment for muscular imbalances. Stress on the arm is measured through electronic computerized monitoring while pitching.
If muscular imbalances are present, a plan is prescribed to address it. If a few mechanical issues are found that increase stress, a plan is made to change that as well.
I’ve seen players make changes, arm pain goes away, and when re-evaluated with the electronic monitoring, the stress on the arm is reduced. All while increasing velocity.
Just teaching kids how to throw harder is a recipe for what we are getting, more arm soreness and more injuries.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:53 pm to lsufball19
quote:
I know Cartwright, Walker, Matulis, Norman and Bourgeois
Ok so I missed some guys
But even then that only puts us at roughly 2-3% of our pitchers over a 13 year period have had tommy john. That’s pretty damn good.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:54 pm to BigEdLSU
LSU's pitchers' recruiting class of 2015 consisted of Jake Latz, Mac Marshall, Alex Lange, Jesse Stalling, Ryan May, Jake Godfrey, Doug Norman, and Austin Bain. By 2017, all but Alex Lange and Austin Bain had some sort of arm surgery. The only one to have it while on the team was Norman. All of the other either came in with arm problems or had them after leaving LSU pitching for another school or in the minors.
If you remember, Maineiri was protecting Lange's arm when we lost to Florida in the CWS.
If you remember, Maineiri was protecting Lange's arm when we lost to Florida in the CWS.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:57 pm to lsufball19
quote:I was simply giving him as an example of that generations mindset as it pertained to resting pitchers
you gave one example of that generation of someone who didn't have arm problems. That doesn't prove or disprove really anything.
It cant be argued rest and pitch counts were watched like they are today. They werent. And, there is no way to accurately quantify the arm injury rate back then like it is today, but the rate seems to have grown. But like you said that could just be perception, but it sure doesnt seem like it
Also, the Japanese league doesnt believe in rest or pitch counts like we do here, and their injury rate is far lower.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:58 pm to PDT1960
quote:I'm just here to say frick Mac Marshall.
all but Alex Lange and Austin Bain had some sort of arm surgery. The only one to have it while on the team was Stallings. All of the other either came in with arm problems or had them after leaving LSU pitching for another school or in the minors.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:58 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Also, the Japanese league doesnt believe in rest or pitch counts like we do here, and their injury rate is far lower
So is your stance that LSU coaches are not throwing our pitchers enough?
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:59 pm to PDT1960
quote:
LSU's pitchers' recruiting class of 2015 consisted of Jake Latz, Mac Marshall, Alex Lange, Jesse Stalling, Ryan May, Jake Godfrey, Doug Norman, and Austin Bain. By 2017, all but Alex Lange and Austin Bain had some sort of arm surgery. The only one to have it while on the team was Stallings. All of the other either came in with arm problems or had them after leaving LSU pitching for another school or in the minors.
You must not remember how his LSU career ended.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:59 pm to deathvalleytiger10
quote:Not if a premium is put on throwing has hard as possible for as long as possible.
Your response to my statement would lead me to think you don’t think anything can be done to minimize injuries.
quote:We agree.
Just teaching kids how to throw harder is a recipe for what we are getting, more arm soreness and more injuries.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:59 pm to lsupride87
I think we should send out pitchers on a 5 mile run and make them do push-ups after each outing. Ice obviously doesn’t work
Posted on 3/20/19 at 1:01 pm to Hold That Tiger 10
quote:No
So is your stance that LSU coaches are not throwing our pitchers enough?
My "stance" is, I wonder if the actual start/stop frequency we implore these days, thinking it is helping reduce arm injuries by limiting pitches thrown at a singular time and increasing rest days, is actually causing more arm injuries
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