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Message
re: Outkick's take on LSU basketball
Posted on 2/25/16 at 6:12 pm to TommyDaTiger
Posted on 2/25/16 at 6:12 pm to TommyDaTiger
quote:That was me. People insist Simmons is great, not just good; that he's the best player in a generation. Sorry, frickhead, I don't see that.
Some jackass was on here yesterday saying how he was just a "good" but not great player. His basis of comparason was that Simmons certainly was no Magic Johnson (arguably one of the 10 best players of all time) and not a "great" rebounded like Dennis Rodman (maybe the best rebounder in the history of basketball!)
Simmons' offensive game consists of... scoring in transition and driving the ball. He has no short game. I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once. He can't score in the lane unless it's a layup. He has no midrange game, no perimeter shot. He's actually backsliding on the FT line, I'd now prefer Victor shoot a FT than him.
He's meh on defense, he is only effective if he has a size advantage (a fairly big one).
His claim to fame currently is his passing ability, and his rebound numbers.
Passing- he's no Magic Johnson, as I said, and I saw Magic kill LSU in the tourney. Magic controlled the ball and made passes that killed the opponent. Simmons makes pretty passes at times, but they are meaningless; he's not dissecting the defense, he's throwing a skip pass to someone wide open who often isn't a shooter.
Rebounding- he's getting a lot of rebounds, but he's doing it against undersized guys, he's not dominating the glass (the Rodman comment). That, and he's fielding a lot of long rebounds that just as easily would filter out to our guards. He really is just giving totals you'd expect of an athletic, 6'10 guy playing in the SEC (a subpar conference); he hasn't shown that he will continue that against NBA frontcourt talent.
The point of my comments is this: if his shooting ability is subpar, his defense is maybe average, his passing ability is "merely" solid for a guy his height, and NOT worthy of comparison to an all-time great, and his rebounding is also just solid, and not incredible... then quit saying he's a once-in-a-generation talent.
If you can't compare him to a legend, than stop touting him as the next great player.
5
Posted on 2/25/16 at 6:28 pm to Scoob
quote:
his passing ability is "merely" solid for a guy his height
come on dude
Posted on 2/25/16 at 6:40 pm to The Seaward
The article is spot on
The truth hurts
Jones has reached his level and his level is not good
The truth hurts
Jones has reached his level and his level is not good
Posted on 2/25/16 at 7:21 pm to Scoob
Posted on 2/25/16 at 8:34 pm to drizztiger
Ok then, so I guess the consensus is that Simmons is great, but "less great" than other great players. To me, that translates as "good"; which, btw, there aren't a lot of in college ball right now.
I just don't see him transforming the NBA; and if he doesn't bend the league to his game, he's not great in my book. You only have greatness once in a rare while.
I just don't see him transforming the NBA; and if he doesn't bend the league to his game, he's not great in my book. You only have greatness once in a rare while.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:14 am to Hammond Tiger Fan
quote:
Even that team underachieved under Jones' leadership.
I agree, let's not forget that team lost to an absolutely horrible Missourri team that I think won one other conference game, twice to a pathetic Auburn team, once at home and once on a neutral court and got embarrassed by 17 at home by a very mediocre Tennessee team last year.
Not to mention blew a 16 point second half lead in the second half to NC State despite Ralston Turner missing what seemed like 10 wide open 3's for them in the second half.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:20 am to Scoob
quote:
Simmons' offensive game consists of... scoring in transition and driving the ball. He has no short game. I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once
Stopped reading here.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 7:22 am
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:49 am to jd6074
Wow! I never really looked into JJ's record at North Texas. Looks like LSU settled on JJ instead of reaching for a top notch coach.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:58 am to LMfan
Ultimately, this went wrong for everyone involved, and the only guy I don't feel bad for is Jones.
Simmons seems to be a decent enough kid; he's not a vocal and fiery leader who goes apeshit trying to win every game. he doesn't act like Leonard Fournette or Tim Tebow, seething in anger and promising to make up for it the next game. I think having Fournette here too, we had more expectations for our "superstar", and that isn't his makeup.
Quarterman is getting slaughtered mercilessly for his play, and that's a shame, because he wasn't that type of player before. He was the TEAM guy, and this was supposed to be the year it paid off.
I think most people thought this team had enough pieces in place to be a bubble team without Simmons; and with him, capable of big things. And it was close to being so; we were never outclassed from the start of any game. We hung with teams, until their coaches made the adjustments and ours didn't. We could have won the NC State game, the Marquette game, the A&M away game, the SC game, the Alabama game... hell even the last Arkansas game was 2 pts at the half. Our players must feel like they're trying to run through knee-deep mud every game, or being told to start a fire in a rainstorm.
Or, to make it a school analogy, they look like a group of kids who are taking a drama and acting class, and everyone sits around in the lecture talking about how to present or emote. And then, the test: act out a Shakespeare play, in class... when nobody was told to read that play and they don't have a script. Simmons might remember the overall plot, and what happens to the lead at the end. Quarterman might recall that it had sword fights in certain conflicts, Hornsby may recall that there was a funny sidekick. So they half-arse get the first scene, and then... what's next? Everyone stands around staring at each other, and with no direction from Jones, they each do their own thing.
Simmons seems to be a decent enough kid; he's not a vocal and fiery leader who goes apeshit trying to win every game. he doesn't act like Leonard Fournette or Tim Tebow, seething in anger and promising to make up for it the next game. I think having Fournette here too, we had more expectations for our "superstar", and that isn't his makeup.
Quarterman is getting slaughtered mercilessly for his play, and that's a shame, because he wasn't that type of player before. He was the TEAM guy, and this was supposed to be the year it paid off.
I think most people thought this team had enough pieces in place to be a bubble team without Simmons; and with him, capable of big things. And it was close to being so; we were never outclassed from the start of any game. We hung with teams, until their coaches made the adjustments and ours didn't. We could have won the NC State game, the Marquette game, the A&M away game, the SC game, the Alabama game... hell even the last Arkansas game was 2 pts at the half. Our players must feel like they're trying to run through knee-deep mud every game, or being told to start a fire in a rainstorm.
Or, to make it a school analogy, they look like a group of kids who are taking a drama and acting class, and everyone sits around in the lecture talking about how to present or emote. And then, the test: act out a Shakespeare play, in class... when nobody was told to read that play and they don't have a script. Simmons might remember the overall plot, and what happens to the lead at the end. Quarterman might recall that it had sword fights in certain conflicts, Hornsby may recall that there was a funny sidekick. So they half-arse get the first scene, and then... what's next? Everyone stands around staring at each other, and with no direction from Jones, they each do their own thing.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 8:02 am to Scoob
quote:
Simmons' offensive game consists of... scoring in transition and driving the ball. He has no short game. I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once. He can't score in the lane unless it's a layup.
Ahh so you havent watched a single game.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 8:23 am to More beer please
quote:Moved on, let it go.
Simmons' offensive game consists of... scoring in transition and driving the ball. He has no short game. I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once. He can't score in the lane unless it's a layup.
Ahh so you havent watched a single game
Posted on 2/26/16 at 8:48 am to LMfan
quote:
uote:
Simmons' offensive game consists of... scoring in transition and driving the ball. He has no short game. I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once
quote:
Stopped reading here.
you haven't noticed that Simmons' points are almost exclusively layups and put backs??? This was evident to me early this season.
The fact is that Simmons' offensive game is extremely limited. He's phenomenal in transition and his ball handling is superb, especially for a guy his size, but if he can't penetrate for a point-blank shot, he doesn't have much else.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:23 am to atltiger6487
There is a huge gulf between "His offensive game is limited" and this statement, which I find patently absurd:
"I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once "
You can find countless examples of him banking in jump hooks, runners in the lane, turnaround jumpers from the low block, etc.
For instance LINK
or LINK
or LINK
LINK
His offensive repertoire is much more diverse than he's being given credit for on here.
"I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once "
You can find countless examples of him banking in jump hooks, runners in the lane, turnaround jumpers from the low block, etc.
For instance LINK
or LINK
or LINK
LINK
His offensive repertoire is much more diverse than he's being given credit for on here.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:33 am to LMfan
quote:
"I don't think he's banked the ball off the glass once "
quote:
His offensive repertoire is much more diverse than he's being given credit for on here.
I didn't post the statement about his bank shot, but I believe what the poster meant is that he hasn't made many soft 6-8 footers off the glass. He makes mostly layups.
As for your statement that his repertoire is more diverse, that's just simply not true. Any knowledgeable basketball can see his limitations. Hell, it only took me a couple games to notice it, and it hasn't changed.
By the way, the first, third, and fourth links you provided are glaring examples of how he can't finish with his left hand. Yes, those shots went in off the glass, but ALL of them were off-balance prayers with his right hand. Again, very bizarre.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 9:35 am
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:40 am to atltiger6487
quote:
By the way, the first, third, and fourth links you provided are glaring examples of how he can't finish with his left hand. Yes, those shots went in off the glass, but ALL of them were off-balance prayers with his right hand. Again, very bizarre.
Yeah, SB Nation did a good break down of his finishing hand. Agree that it's really weird. 81% of his non jumpers this season have been finished with his right.
Even when he's driving to the left side of the rim he'll often switch to his right forcing an awkward angle. I don't know if it's a confidence thing or what. Did he miss a lefty layup in practice and has the yips now? Who knows, but it's weird.
LINK
When an observation about his game can be supported by empirical evidence, I'm willing to listen to criticisms.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 9:41 am
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:57 am to LMfan
I have never seen anything like LSU fans tearing down their own players (and their pro potential) .
Mickey
Martin
Simmons
Ask this site and you'd swear they would all go undrafted
Mickey
Martin
Simmons
Ask this site and you'd swear they would all go undrafted
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 9:59 am
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:57 am to LMfan
LINK
:24 of the video. 6 point game in the early 2nd half vs. Arkansas. ben simmons drives into 3 people, turns it over, does not give any effort to get back on defense while Arkansas easily scores (you never even see him enter the picture). this is just one example since you wanted evidence.
:24 of the video. 6 point game in the early 2nd half vs. Arkansas. ben simmons drives into 3 people, turns it over, does not give any effort to get back on defense while Arkansas easily scores (you never even see him enter the picture). this is just one example since you wanted evidence.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 11:22 am to lsufan251875
quote:
I have never seen anything like LSU fans tearing down their own players (and their pro potential) .
Mickey
Martin
Simmons
Ask this site and you'd swear they would all go undrafted
May I add football players like Trai Turner, Danny McCray (poor guy caught hell at LSU, been cashing NFL checks for 6 years now), Brandon LaFell, etc.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:11 pm to lsufan251875
quote:
I have never seen anything like LSU fans tearing down their own players (and their pro potential) .
You call it tearing down, I'd call it honest critique.
Just because a guy wears purple and gold doesn't mean he's flawless and immune from honest criticism. These players voluntarily come to a major school to play ball - they know that comes with expectations, pressure, and criticism will occur.
All players have flaws, and there's nothing wrong with pointing them out. I mean, this is a fan message board, after all.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 3:04 pm to Scoob
quote:
I just don't see him transforming the NBA; and if he doesn't bend the league to his game, he's not great in my book.
I wonder if you applied this logic to Anthony Davis, Stephen Curry, Tim Duncan and Draymond Green at 19?
You are projecting out a 19 year old kid as if his game will remain stagnant at this output when he is 26 years old.
The reasons scouts love him is because he is doing things at a level you don't see 18 year olds do and he has the intangibles, work ethic, moral grounding and genetics to develop into a Lebron James level freak. The fact he is putting up his numbers in an awful system with an awful coach is pretty impressive.
He may not hit that peak, but come on now. Such assumption this early in a players career is dangerously close minded.
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