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re: Men's basketball team STATE OF THE PROGRAM - going in the right direction?
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:11 pm to dgnx6
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:11 pm to dgnx6
quote:
All the good ones are 1 and done anyway.
Keep telling yourself that... UK has 3-5 one and dones and LSU still was better than them head to head. Don't kid yourself with comments like this. Look at how Florida has built their team... They have 5 seniors who are major contributors (4 starters). That is the way to really build a dynasty. Get players who want to be in college and bring them on slowly so they can get the feel of the game.
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 3:12 pm
1
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:31 pm to YouAre8Up
quote:
What does you realistically expect in year two? Give the guy a chance to get his recruits in here and to re-build this program to the way he needs it to be to become more successful.
Basketball isn't football. You can turn around a basketball program overnight with good recruiting and coaching.
I don't want Jones fired, but if we don't see significant improvement next year, he's going to seriously be on the hot seat. He seems to be recruiting well, but it's not translating to the court, and we all see the atrocious defense, poor ball movement on the offensive end, lack of intensity, and generally poor game management by Jones.
All in all, it's not going well, despite having pretty darn good talent. The responsibility falls on the head coach.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 3:33 pm to SouthOfSouth
Expectations don't always equal results.
Alot of the expectations were too lofty, mainly due to the incoming freshman.
Of the incoming freshman only Mickey has met or exceeded those expectations.
Martin is going to be good, he just wasn't close to as good as many thought.
This team is simply missing something. I think losing Carmouche was huge. Kid wasn't great, but was solid at alot of things. Coleman has done some good things, but this team seems to lack on court leadership.
Funny thing is we will lose JOB, Coleman, and Stringer. Yet, I think next year's team will be much improved.
Now come next year, if this team remotely resembles this years team defensively. I think CJJ will be squarely on the hot seat. This year's defense has been really bad at alot of basic stuff.
Alot of the expectations were too lofty, mainly due to the incoming freshman.
Of the incoming freshman only Mickey has met or exceeded those expectations.
Martin is going to be good, he just wasn't close to as good as many thought.
This team is simply missing something. I think losing Carmouche was huge. Kid wasn't great, but was solid at alot of things. Coleman has done some good things, but this team seems to lack on court leadership.
Funny thing is we will lose JOB, Coleman, and Stringer. Yet, I think next year's team will be much improved.
Now come next year, if this team remotely resembles this years team defensively. I think CJJ will be squarely on the hot seat. This year's defense has been really bad at alot of basic stuff.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:47 pm to SouthOfSouth
why dance around the truth-Johnny Jones is a major disappointment. The great Rick Majerus said winning was about rebounding and defense....LSU cannot do either.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 5:01 pm to LagdonCG
quote:
why dance around the truth-Johnny Jones is a major disappointment. The great Rick Majerus said winning was about rebounding and defense....LSU cannot do either.
Do you not realize what shambles LSU was in when he got here? Trent Johnson ran this program into the ground with his inability to recruit a full roster.
LSU is 3 specific shots away from being a tournament team right now. That's it. 3 shots.
I do think that Jones is a little stubborn while coaching and doesn't make the switch if something isn't working, but I'd hardly say he is a major disappointment. He has totally turned around the talent level and hopefully he will re-evaluate his coaching decisions this off season and figure out a way to perform better next season.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 5:29 pm to GeismarGeauxer
I think our talent level has definitely improved but our youth and inexperience has cost us some games. Consider how many games we have blown playing on the road. I attribute that to the young squad not being able to handle the pressure. The frustrating part to me is that JOB has repeatedly found himself in foul trouble to put the team in a tough spot. That should not be expected from arguably the team's best and most experienced player.
I think we are definitely headed in the right direction and experience will help. It is a shame that we may miss the tourney this year because I feel like we have the talent to have made it.
I think we are definitely headed in the right direction and experience will help. It is a shame that we may miss the tourney this year because I feel like we have the talent to have made it.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 5:49 pm to SouthOfSouth
I think I was one of the few who didn't overestimate this team starting the season. But they didn't even meet my expectations. I said 11-7 in SEC and NIT bid winning at least three games in tournament.
Main problem, IMO, has been total lack of a leader on the floor. We came out flat and without energy so many times, especially on the road. Carmouche gave us that last year. This year it should have been Coleman and Stringer, but as much as I like both of them as players, they just don't have the personality.
JOB will be better as a pro. He has too many weaknesses as a college player. His turnovers, getting into foul trouble and playing out of position on defense has really hurt us as we depended on him so much. His indecisiveness, waiting for the double team to come before making his move, and not passing out of the double team quickly enough were frustrating all year long. That said he is still potentially a great player and I wish him well as a pro.
Since we had no leadership on the floor, CJJ should have provided it from the bench. But just like our seniors his personality does not go in that direction. Either he needs to make a strong effort to change or he needs to hire a fiery assistant coach and let him do it.
Main problem, IMO, has been total lack of a leader on the floor. We came out flat and without energy so many times, especially on the road. Carmouche gave us that last year. This year it should have been Coleman and Stringer, but as much as I like both of them as players, they just don't have the personality.
JOB will be better as a pro. He has too many weaknesses as a college player. His turnovers, getting into foul trouble and playing out of position on defense has really hurt us as we depended on him so much. His indecisiveness, waiting for the double team to come before making his move, and not passing out of the double team quickly enough were frustrating all year long. That said he is still potentially a great player and I wish him well as a pro.
Since we had no leadership on the floor, CJJ should have provided it from the bench. But just like our seniors his personality does not go in that direction. Either he needs to make a strong effort to change or he needs to hire a fiery assistant coach and let him do it.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 5:51 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
Talent level has increased. We had more luck on our side last year where this year the final shots havent fallen. Had the last shot to win against UK, Ole Miss and Bama and just missed. If we win those three we aren't having this conversation.
Hickey had his chance and failed in the tad pad. Why was he allowed to take the same shots in the uk and bama games
Posted on 3/3/14 at 5:53 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
He has totally turned around the talent level and hopefully he will re-evaluate his coaching decisions this off season and figure out a way to perform better next season.
His record in the sun belt should tell you this ain't happening
Posted on 3/3/14 at 6:02 pm to TigerRagAndrew
quote:
His record in the sun belt should tell you this ain't happening
This guy.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 6:29 pm to GeismarGeauxer
Fans this year have freaked out after every loss and thought this team was awesome after every win. Only an idiot would want Johnny Jones fired within the next two years. Something will have to be done about whatever assistant coach is in charge of defense though. The program is definitely heading in the right direction. It does seem that people have forgotten just how bad this program was when he took over.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:49 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
Do you not realize what shambles LSU was in when he got here?
It was and CJJ did a great job with last year's roster - they definitely over-achieved.
That team had so much fight in them, they busted their butts on the court most of the time - and the starters put in major minutes. Didn't seem to slow them down. It was like they played with a chip on their shoulders, because they knew they weren't that deep and had to do it all. How did CJJ get them to do that last year?
I feel like that if they'd of had this year's freshmen last year, they'd be better than this years team, just because of attitude?
I just don't know what happened this year, I'm so perplexed.
Every now and then they've resurrected themselves in last year's image.
Hickey was a huge motivator and leader against Kentucky. JOB was determined against them too with 29 pts.
It seems that no one player is able to sustain leadership and determination night in, night out.
quote:
I do think that Jones is a little stubborn while coaching and doesn't make the switch if something isn't working
This is true, and I have a feeling that the more opposition he gets, the more he's likely to dig his heels in. He's not a consensus gatherer, more a controlling "my way or else" kind of personality. You can still lead and be respected by players and assistants, as a head coach, if you're prepared to listen, sometimes IMO
I'm just wondering if he might be "losing" his players? I hope this is not so.
I've tried to come up with some reasons why we're not clicking, not firing on all cylinders.
Here're my ideas:
Possible dissatisfaction or frustration amongst players about the offense only ever run through JOB, when it's so difficult to accomplish at times given their personnel, and every team in the SEC knows the offense. It would bug me anyway!
A chemistry upset with the addition of the new players??
Confusion on defense because the freshmen don't "get it"?
The above noted coaching inflexibility??
A lack of outward emotion from coaches on the sidelines - no cheerleading, or conversely, no sharp words for bonehead plays??
Not going "to bat" for players against officials on bad calls vociferously or often enough??
No "rah-rah" coaching moticvation, just quiet expectation??
Anyone else have a theory?
Posted on 3/4/14 at 3:09 am to nicholastiger
quote:We've seen enough in year two to know what we got in JJ.
this team was good enough in a weak conference and should've made the NCAA tourney. They lost some games they had no busy losing and it cost them this year. Johnny's in game coaching could have been better and it is paramount that his staff will have to have a good x/o guy.
Good recruiter. Not so good in X's/O's and in-game Management. Can't coach defense. The staff is the exact same.
Better than TJ, but that aint sayin much.
I'll give him one more year and if he can't turn it around next season, it'll be time to cut bait. LSU fans don't have much patience left and shouldn't be forced to wait multiple years longer for a NCAA Tourney calibur mens basketball program.
ALL of Sneaux Peas Jeaux's basketball hires have been weak.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 8:40 am to Ignignot
Good recruiting, poor coaching and utilization of talent. We allow 1 million layups a game, we never block out, and although our free throws have gotten way better, we've lost several games at the line. I think we'll be better next year, but b/c of growth not coaching.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 9:03 am to Ignignot
Maybe but the lady's team NO! JJ needs to look up the word defense. 
DON'T SEE ANY FIRE!!!
DON'T SEE ANY FIRE!!!This post was edited on 3/4/14 at 9:08 am
Posted on 3/4/14 at 10:00 am to Britgirl
quote:
Possible dissatisfaction or frustration amongst players about the offense only ever run through JOB, when it's so difficult to accomplish at times given their personnel, and every team in the SEC knows the offense. It would bug me anyway!
A chemistry upset with the addition of the new players??
Confusion on defense because the freshmen don't "get it"?
The above noted coaching inflexibility??
A lack of outward emotion from coaches on the sidelines - no cheerleading, or conversely, no sharp words for bonehead plays??
Not going "to bat" for players against officials on bad calls vociferously or often enough??
No "rah-rah" coaching moticvation, just quiet expectation??
Anyone else have a theory?
There's probably a little bit of truth to all of that. And granted, we don't get to see what goes on at practice (at least I don't), so we don't have a full picture of the staff/team interaction.
I don't get the sense that he's losing the players. When that happens you generally see a team get blown out game after game. That's not happening here.
I do think the Freshman play a part in the defensive woes. Remember, many of these guys come from basketball prep schools and AAU programs where they probably become better skilled offensive players than they might be if they were just in a HS program, but severely lack defensive fundamentals. This isn't just an LSU problem, but look at a guy like Martin, it looks like he's never played defensive basketball in his life.
CJJ has got to bring a little more passion to the sideline. There are far many times where it looks like his team is playing with his personality, very disconnected. No one is saying that he has to be Bobby Knight or Tom Crean, but hell, show some emotion either way. Watch the NCAAT this year, you won't see many coaches who just stand on the sideline and stare blankly on to the court. They're living and dying with their teams. Encouraging them on great plays and getting in thier team's face a bit to correct bad plays/effort. A 10-0 run from LSU draws little reaction from the head man. Likewise, 10 possessions in a row in which the opponent gets to the basket uncontested draws a similar "non-reaction".
Much of the defensive problems can be traced back to poor effort. Above all, being a great defensive team takes two things, desire and communication. You have to WANT to defend. While ultimately the effort on the court rest on the players, it would be nice to see the coach jump a guys arse from time to time if he's lackadasical on the defense end. At the very minimum, show that player and his teammates that poor effort isn't acceptable. Right now we'll see literally 10 bad defensive possessions in a row with the EXACT same mistakes being made on each possession, and it draws no noticible reaction from the bench.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 11:27 am to Alt26
quote:
And granted, we don't get to see what goes on at practice (at least I don't), so we don't have a full picture of the staff/team interaction.
Although this is in no way representative of current practices, I was able to see 2 at the beginning of the season and they were very intense. Lots of conditioning drills and a free throw practice right after running.
I saw extreme effort and competitive attitudes. Both scrimmages and drills featured all freshmen on one team with JOB, and either Shavon, Malik or Andre(all the scorers)subbing in and out in one half-court.
They were learning the offensive plays, and I don't remember much time on D other than as part of the scrimmages, except for defensive drills, some of which were 5 on 3. Now they apparently do some 8-3 drills. This doesn't mean they haven't been working more on defense since those practices.
Anthony was given the task of teaching "the others" (including the walk-ons) the offense at the other end. He had a hard time getting some of them to remember the play numbers LOL. I remember figuring out which numbers meant left or right after about 5 minutes of watching them
However they did work on defense as a "team" quite a bit. I don't know whether that was CJJ's requirement from that group so they could defend the other team, or Anthony's initiative.
They scrimmaged a lot against each other and Anthony absolutely hated losing to the "first team". He's real competitive and busted his butt.
In the 2nd practice we saw, the "other" team won and they were elated!
Afterwards, the players came over to us spectators to high 5 us etc. I congratulated John Odo on the win, and he said, smiling broadly "we won on defense"! Interesting, huh?
BTW, One highlight for me watching the "other" team, was how good Keith Hornsby was. VERY competitive, very vocal, very strong (guy is ripped) with a great 3 pointer and lay-up. I'm looking forward to seeing him next season. I think he might develop into a leader from the little I saw of him in those early practices.
IMO all the guys played hard in those practices, in part due to trying to compete for starting spots. That was likely their motivation perhaps?
quote:
so we don't have a full picture of the staff/team interaction.
During the practices I witnessed, CJJ and coach Leonard worked with the "first team" and coach McCray with the "other" team. CJJ & CL were on the court with the players and were very encouraging and constantly shouting out instructions.
Coach McC the same. I think Coach Patrick was mainly working on skills with whichever players weren't on the court at the time.
CJJ was humorous at times.
I do think at that time, practicing that format (the 2 diff teams) might have caused a lack of cohesiveness overall, and a division between the groups. Of course I haven't seen any practices since, so that comment is only speculation.
quote:
it would be nice to see the coach jump a guys arse from time to time if he's lackadasical on the defense end.
I agree, I'd sit them and not let them play offense for a while. Players hate that. But of course CJJ's hands are tied at the moment, he hasn't got the bodies to put put there. I have seen CJJ get in the faces of some players as they leave go to the bench tho'. Maybe he addresses those issues after the game, behind closed doors?
quote:
A 10-0 run from LSU draws little reaction from the head man.
I know. It saddens me. Positive reinforcement goes a long way.
I remember last year talking to ADP's parents at College Station. They told me that Andrew had told them that the team "was a family" and they really appreciated how everyone had embraced Tuba.
Maybe that feeling is lacking this year for some reason.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 6:20 pm to GeismarGeauxer
If we are supposed to be in a downhill run we are just fine.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 6:57 pm to YouAre8Up
quote:
The talent was NOT here when Johnny Jones came back to town. Johnny Jones does not walk on water. What does you realistically expect in year two? Give the guy a chance to get his recruits in here and to re-build this program to the way he needs it to be to become more successful.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 7:07 pm to Alt26
quote:
This isn't just an LSU problem, but look at a guy like Martin, it looks like he's never played defensive basketball in his life.
I watched Martin play in high school and his coach would just have in stand in the lane and be a rim protector,in man to man or zone.
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