re: LSU traditions, and why our governor doesn’t give a sh’t about them.

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Please tell me you didn't graduate from LSU. Tigers don't live in Africa, and everything else about your comments completely misses the reasoning as to why this stunt will make it difficult for LSU to get future tigers and could cause the vet school to lose accreditation.

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Not sure I follow the logic here. This entire situation is entirely divorced from the Mike program or the Vet school.

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What you've posted is more of the same that has been stated for years. This isn't new research.

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Why does it have to be new research to get your brain wrapped around it? Research generally endeavors to explore new hypotheses and establish support for them (or disprove them). Rarely does science fully prove or disprove something; rather, scientific research is done to support a hypothesis. In this case, you said "I happen to think having the live tiger was neat, and not any less "harmful" to the animal than people who have pets" and "Does the Tiger look unhappy? Did he tell you he was sad?".

I presented the fruits of a 30-second google search to find support for the notion that animals do in fact display emotions. Do you need more? Mike the Tiger has literally demonstrated a resistance to being put in the small mobile cage. Is that evidence enough that the Tiger looks unhappy for you?

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Once again, they are trying to assign human-like emotion to basic reactions in animals. If an animal physically feels bad, either because it's sick, or cold or hungry, or whatever the case may be, they might appear to be distressed, but how does one assign an emotion to that, rather than keeping in mind that animals understand threats to their survival? There is never an answer. It is simply inferred and accepted that it must be an emotion.

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So many issues with this. First, "they" is a troubling word here. Who is this "they" you are talking about and why is it that you are so bothered by what "they" think? "They" are not trying to do anything - "they" are studying something that, as you seem to be admitting, isn't necessarily as simple as you'd think. Your stance, though, is that because the animals cannot speak or fill out a survey, that we cannot infer or even state with some degree of confidence that what we see in them is emotion or feeling. I don't need a survey to see that my dogs can express happiness, fear, stress, and even remorse. It's plainly obvious, but you demand 100% proof. Since that's your standard, it seems foolish for me to continue to argue with you.

But.....I feel foolish this particular Friday morning so I'll carry on.

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The burden is on people like PETA to demonstrate how a tiger's well-being is adversely affected by being wheeled out in a cage for a little bit, while otherwise being treated like an animal king.

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Actually, the burden is not on PETA to do any of what you said. LSU is an accredited sanctuary, and in order to maintain that distinction and potentially be able to receive rescue tigers in the future, it must abide by certain regulations. These are the same types of regulations that zoos abide by - and the most extreme groups like PETA often argue that any animal kept in captivity is unethical and should be stopped. PETA isn't the issue here - it's a significant change in the understanding of the wellbeing of large animals. In arguments like this, people often throw around PETA as the bogeyman and compare anyone that cares about animals to PETA activists. News flash - you can care about animals and also at the same time think PETA is ridiculous.

Your constant comparisons of a TIGER to a cow, dogs, and a buffalo are just as dumb as the general argument you are making.

This is my favorite:

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And if LSU brings a tiger into the stadium, as they have before, they have to know what they're doing.

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Is it possible in your mind that the people who have been caring for tigers for significant portions of their lives know what they're doing by not bringing the tiger into the stadium? Probably not..."ME WANT TIGER IN STADIUM!!"

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So you want me to show you evidence for something that I'm saying doesn't exist?

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Yes, it's called scientific research, pal. Do you have some evidence that hypotheses about whether animals have feelings and emotions have been largely unsupported in academic research?

Your position here is that you simply believe that animals don't have emotions and feelings; rather, they have instincts and low intelligence. You are also suggesting that animals aren't capable of emotions because they conflict with base animal instincts. Have you considered that possibly there is some nuance to that? History is littered with examples of human beings hurting people that they love. Instincts and emotions are not mutually exclusive, and it is common for them to be in conflict with one another when it comes to what drives behavior. It's not clear to me why you are so insistent that animals cannot possibly demonstrate emotions or feeling.

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The news said the Tiger left Florida

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of course we get our random Tiger from Florida

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Fear is a response to a threat. Does that make it an emotion? For human beings, it is because we process things in ways that animals cannot.

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Ok.

What about anger? Is that an emotion?

It’s a distraction that we do not need. Bring back a tiger for this game looks like a political move..why now? Why not at the beginning of the season?

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Fear is a response to a threat. Does that make it an emotion? For human beings, it is because we process things in ways that animals cannot. We think long term about what harm could come to us. An antelope sees a lion and thinks "run!!". That is it's instinct to survive. If it gets away (which it probably won't, unless it hides in a horde of other animals and the lion finds another target) it's going to go right back into the open before you know it. People are refining the meaning of "emotion" because they are looking at everything through an evolutionary lens, rather than a biblical one.

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Can you explain to me why my dog whines so much every single morning when I'm leaving for work if he doesn't feel emotions? Mind you, other people are still at the house when I leave and he always eats in the evening so it isn't about food.

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Do you really need this distinction spelled out for you?

Yes
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Really?

Yes

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The lengths people will go to in an effort to put their cognitive abilites on display is remarkable.

I guess I'll attempt to help you, because I'm in a giving mood this morning.

A dog that spends its days in someone's house being paraded around a stadium on a leash is not even remotely similar to a bengal tiger that has limited interaction with humans being forced into a cage and paraded around a stadium while being provoked by its handlers in an effort to get loud cheers and applause from the stadium.

What exactly about these two situations do you find similar, other than these are animals and they are going into a stadium?

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I agree 100%. Also, it never fails when an argument doesn't hold up, resort to personal insults. Never change Rant

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I'd suggest doing a review of this thread and see if there's a specific argument that doesn't seem to be holding up.

I can do the same thing: Also, it never fails when an argument doesn't hold up, resort to not adding anything to the conversation or responding to the content of the posts or the matter at hand.

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A dog that spends its days in someone's house being paraded around a stadium on a leash is not even remotely similar to a bengal tiger that has limited interaction with humans being forced into a cage and paraded around a stadium while being provoked by its handlers in an effort to get loud cheers and applause from the stadium.

What exactly about these two situations do you find similar, other than these are animals and they are going into a stadium?

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It can be argued that a tiger lives in a cage and is on display to crowds of humans daily. Some tigers may be better acclimated to a stadium atmosphere than others. Regardless, I don't think bringing a tiger into a stadium will do long term damage to the animal. Since the original argument I commented on was about dogs and their emotions related to this situation, I would like to add that when my dogs freek out and shake and are obviously distressed when fireworks are going off in the neighborhood, they are 100% fine the next day. I think the tiger situation is similar. But please, continue to post insults and comments about my cognitive abilities. You're so smart.

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Why does it have to be new research to get your brain wrapped around it?

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Because the old research doesn't demonstrate to any degree of certainty what they claim it does, any more than climate "research" which "97% of all scientists agree on" has demonstrated to be reliable, despite all of the revered academia of which you so highly esteem has touted as evidence over the years.

And who are "they"? Well you gave me the links to read. Was it not clear to you that I was responding to them? Why do I bring up the climate "scientists", you may wonder? Well, because like all of mainstream academia, there is a clear agenda: Gaslight the public by whatever means necessary in order to achieve a desired outcome. Scare people into thinking they're destroying the planet, and they'll get you to change your way of life, and look to them as your guiding light. Convince people that the world is billions of years old (without evidence), and make you question your world view. And as it pertains to the subject we're discussing today, try to eliminate as many distinctions between humans and animals as possible, and further cement the idea that we are all just animals; the product of millions of years of evolution, rather than human beings who were created in the image of God.

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Mike the Tiger has literally demonstrated a resistance to being put in the small mobile cage. Is that evidence enough that the Tiger looks unhappy for you?

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Do you know if they tried when he was young? Is it not a known fact that animals develop behavior through repetition? Had LSU not already decided to discontinue the tradition of bringing a tiger into the stadium by 2015? Lots of animals show a resistance to cages. Until they get used to it. How is that emotion? Isn't it an instinct to resist what isn't familiar?

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Your stance, though, is that because the animals cannot speak or fill out a survey, that we cannot infer or even state with some degree of confidence that what we see in them is emotion or feeling. I don't need a survey to see that my dogs can express happiness, fear, stress, and even remorse. It's plainly obvious, but you demand 100% proof. Since that's your standard, it seems foolish for me to continue to argue with you.

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Remorse? So you fussed at your dog and it gave you a look, which you concluded was remorse? Or did it learn through repeated behavior on your part that there were consequences coming whenever it heard you raise your voice? You think that I think animals are stupid. Interestingly, I never actually said or even inferred that. I believe that God gave creatures very complex instincts that allow them to pick up on things. It's how they survive. It's a remarkable thing. But to say that they internalize things on an emotional level, I find to be unrealistic.

Your constant comparisons of a TIGER to a cow, dogs, and a buffalo are just as dumb as the general argument you are making.
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Actually, the burden is not on PETA to do any of what you said. LSU is an accredited sanctuary, and in order to maintain that distinction and potentially be able to receive rescue tigers in the future, it must abide by certain regulations

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LSU did this for years, without issue. Only when the likes of PETA (I don't care how much of a boogeyman you think they are, the fact of the matter is that it IS the extreme like them who even made this an issue) came after LSU, did they cave to the pressure. It's time to call these people on their bluff. How is LSU putting this tiger in danger? What business should it be of any group of activists to decide for everyone else what they can and cannot do? Furthermore, this will not be a tiger from LSU, and thus the vet school cannot be held liable for anything that happens. They can sue the athletic department, and sue the governor, but this is not about the vet school.

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News flash - you can care about animals and also at the same time think PETA is ridiculous.

Your constant comparisons of a TIGER to a cow, dogs, and a buffalo are just as dumb as the general argument you are making.

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Again, you say they are ridiculous, and I agree, but to act as though they are an outlier is something I cannot agree on. Any group who believes it has the authority to stop someone from bringing a live tiger in a cage into a stadium, by threatening the vet school is an absurd group. Calling that abuse is an obvious overstatement.

And how is a cow, and a buffalo or a dog any different? Is it normal for them to be in front of thousands of people? No. They can get just as spooked. But they get used to it, because they eventually learn that they are not in danger... because they're not. It worked with other tigers, remember?

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Is it possible in your mind that the people who have been caring for tigers for significant portions of their lives know what they're doing by not bringing the tiger into the stadium? Probably not..."ME WANT TIGER IN STADIUM!!"

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Would it be possible for me to believe that, if there were anything to support that? Sure. But they did this for decades, without incident, until the plug was pulled. And if the decision was now out of their hands as caretakers, why should I conclude that they are the one's deciding not to bring the tiger into the stadium? Now that the tiger is 8 years old, and is set in his ways, it's a little late to train him for that environment. That's why Jeff Landry has called in for another tiger. Now, you can disagree with that decision, but it's not going to affect the vet school.