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Message
re: LSU Mentioned in Real Sports Report on CFB Recruiting Violations
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:22 am to foshizzle
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:22 am to foshizzle
quote:
Personally, I think athletes should be paid
Look, I know this is opening a pandora's box of opinions and criticism but I'll speak my piece anyway. College athletics is a huge money making industry. Between athletic gear, television contracts, university wide endorsements, major institutions make a killing off of these young athletes. When we look at this from an economic scale, we are quick to side with these poor exploited athletes.
However, for those of you that have to pay your own way through college, how much have you spent over a 4-5 year span between tuition, room and board, meals, etc.? These athletes are getting paid a full ride, in most cases, which equates to tens of thousands of dollars over a 4-5 year period. That's better than most part time jobs I have ever had.
Whatever side of the fence you're on in regard to this topic, I see your point. It just rubs me the wrong way any time I hear someone say that athletes don't get anything from their university for their services.
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Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:23 am to King Joey
quote:
I wonder why people believe things like this? I seriously doubt anyone knows a statistically significant enough sample of all college football players to make reasonable conclusion even if every one that they did know admitted taking money.
Personally, I am confident that this is nothing more than modern society's obsession with wanting to believe the worst about anyone of note and "the system" as a whole. I am generally skeptical of all such notions that "everybody knows" such-and-such bad things is/does happen "all the time". That is based on my personal experiences with too many situations where I happen to have direct knowledge that what "everybody knows" is patently false. And no, I have no link nor am I interested in sharing or discussing the particulars. If you don't believe me, I don't really care. But I'd be willing to bet many (if not most) of you have had at least one similar experience where "everybody" assumed they "knew" something about a situation, but you had actual knowledge that they were wrong.
I think only an idiot would believe that every single college football player could be getting paid significant amounts of illegal money without the NCAA (and more incredibly, the IRS) not getting wind of it and taking action. To assume that close to every single major player gets significant amounts of illegal money requires only slightly less ignorance.
I don't think every player is getting paid but my gut feeling is the main players are getting paid in some way. I've seen it in highschool where people will treat the star athlete as pretty much their own kid and want to give them things. I assume there are a lot more people associated with colleges who feel that way and want to give the players stuff.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:31 am to KingwoodLsuFan
quote:Like handfuls of cash?
I've seen it in highschool where people will treat the star athlete as pretty much their own kid and want to give them things. I assume there are a lot more people associated with colleges who feel that way and want to give the players stuff.
I've never been on particularly close terms with what you would call a "major college football star", so I've never gotten the first hand admissions that so many people claim to have gotten. But I do find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of dollars (over the years) would be changing hands with so many people's knowledge and the IRS wouldn't have a clue. I mean let's face it; if dozens of Ranters have so much "personal knowledge" of this going on "all the time" at "every school", the IRS would have caught on a long, long time ago.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:32 am to King Joey
quote:
I think only an idiot would believe that every single college football player could be getting paid significant amounts of illegal money without the NCAA (and more incredibly, the IRS) not getting wind of it and taking action. To assume that close to every single major player gets significant amounts of illegal money requires only slightly less ignorance.
I am not saying that every player is getting money, but I would say that many are. I would dare to say that the players and coaches do not even know were the money comes from sometimes.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:36 am to King Joey
quote:
Like handfuls of cash?
I've never been on particularly close terms with what you would call a "major college football star", so I've never gotten the first hand admissions that so many people claim to have gotten. But I do find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of dollars (over the years) would be changing hands with so many people's knowledge and the IRS wouldn't have a clue. I mean let's face it; if dozens of Ranters have so much "personal knowledge" of this going on "all the time" at "every school", the IRS would have caught on a long, long time ago.
I just find it hard to believe major boosters who invest a lot of money into a program isn't involved with the players in any way.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:40 am to King Joey
quote:
But I do find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of dollars (over the years) would be changing hands with so many people's knowledge and the IRS wouldn't have a clue. I mean let's face it; if dozens of Ranters have so much "personal knowledge" of this going on "all the time" at "every school", the IRS would have caught on a long, long time ago.
I am not saying that players are getting envelopes with $50000 cash in them. But to believe that $100 here and $250 there is not getting passed around to the higher profile players is a little naive.
As for the IRS.. If I give you $250 dollars cash in a unmarked envelope how in the hell is the IRS going to find out about it, much less prove that I gave to to you and that you accepted it.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:41 am to ScottieP
quote:Well that's fine you would say that, but how many? And how would you know? Do you know "many" footbal players?
I am not saying that every player is getting money, but I would say that many are.
I'm not trying to pick you out, but I wonder how many people believe this not through any personal knowledge, but rather because it's what they've always heard. Do you have any actual knowledge that would support the suggestion that "many" players are getting paid? Keep in mind that there is a huge organization -- the NCAA -- with an entire branch -- compliance enforcement -- dedicated to nothing but finding out about and stopping practices like these, and their information strongly suggests that such practices are fairly rare. I know many people just assume the NCAA routinely fails in that mission, but again; is that assumption based on anywhere near as much actual knowledge or data as supports the counter notion that it is not all that pervasive?
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:45 am to ScottieP
quote:
But to believe that $100 here and $250 there is not getting passed around to the higher profile players is a little naive.
i saw a scholarship player under Saban who i dont think started a game over 4 years get money after a game. With my own eyes. It was $200 or so
its not just the stars.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 11:53 am to ScottieP
quote:Why naive? Is it because there's no actual evidence or data to support the notion that it happens regularly? Or is it naive simply because everybody is saying it happens, so "everybody knows", and I should want to appear to be "in the know"?
But to believe that $100 here and $250 there is not getting passed around to the higher profile players is a little naive.
quote:You might want to ask the thousands of people who have been fined or convicted of tax evasion for getting paid or employing people "under the table". The IRS would find out about it the same way the dozens of people on this very board supposedly "found out" about it. And the proof would not be hard to come by for any investigator and/or prosecutor worth their salt interviewing a handful of young athletes, particulary some of the "less than bright" ones. And that's not even considering the possibilities of stings, wiretaps, phone taps, etc., that could be aimed at significant boosters/sources of that money.
As for the IRS.. If I give you $250 dollars cash in a unmarked envelope how in the hell is the IRS going to find out about it, much less prove that I gave to to you and that you accepted it.
When you actually sit down and think about it for a while, for this kind of pervasive illicit activity to exist for so long with so many people aware of it without the IRS finding out would strain credulity.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:06 pm to King Joey
is it confirmed that LSU actually recruited this kid? did he ever actually attend a camp at LSU?
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:09 pm to Lester Earl
Okay, so even assuming your story is legit (and I have no reason to question it), that is one instance involving one player that you saw after a game. But how many players have you seen after games and not seen getting money? Do you simply assume they are all getting money after every game that you somehow fail to see simply because one time you saw one guy get some?
This is the problem with conventional wisdom's dumber cousin, "everybody knows". Once that gets into somebody's head, anything that supports it gets noted and remembered, while the thousands of unremarkable events that contradict it go unnoted and/or forgotten. Thus, the myth is self-perpetuating because every supporting event -- however statistically insignficant and anecdotal -- strengthens the belief in the myth which in turn heightens the sensitivity to such events.
I try not to be the type that just swallows what everyone says and believe it simply because "everybody knows" it's true. That does not make me naive. In fact, it is much more the other way around.
This is the problem with conventional wisdom's dumber cousin, "everybody knows". Once that gets into somebody's head, anything that supports it gets noted and remembered, while the thousands of unremarkable events that contradict it go unnoted and/or forgotten. Thus, the myth is self-perpetuating because every supporting event -- however statistically insignficant and anecdotal -- strengthens the belief in the myth which in turn heightens the sensitivity to such events.
I try not to be the type that just swallows what everyone says and believe it simply because "everybody knows" it's true. That does not make me naive. In fact, it is much more the other way around.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:13 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
Yea, these players were definitely paid for the interviews. That is definitely worth noting.
no they arent
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:16 pm to Lester Earl
quote:Really? Why not?
no they arent
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:31 pm to King Joey
quote:
You might want to ask the thousands of people who have been fined or convicted of tax evasion for getting paid or employing people "under the table". The IRS would find out about it the same way the dozens of people on this very board supposedly "found out" about it. And the proof would not be hard to come by for any investigator and/or prosecutor worth their salt interviewing a handful of young athletes, particularly some of the "less than bright" ones. And that's not even considering the possibilities of stings, wiretaps, phone taps, etc., that could be aimed at significant boosters/sources of that money.
When you actually sit down and think about it for a while, for this kind of pervasive illicit activity to exist for so long with so many people aware of it without the IRS finding out would strain credulity.
First of all, it's not illegal to give money to someone as a gift. If I have earned my money and paid my taxes on that income, I'm free to give it to whoever I want as a gift as long as I'm not employing that person. For example, if I see a homeless woman on the street and I decide to give her 100 bucks for food or whatever, do you think she's going to report that to the IRS? If I decide to give my daughter's friend $500 bucks to help with medical bills she can't afford, she isn't going to report that to the IRS, and the IRS frankly doesn't give a rat's arse. So if I want to give a poor athlete a couple hundred bucks to "help" him out like I would a homeless or poor person--what's that to the IRS? I'm not employing that player. They aren't coming over to mow my grass or wash my car--I may never even see him again. So all this garbage about the IRS would know blah blah blah is just hogwash. None of that is illegal, and even if it was it would be virtually untraceable and impossible to prove.
How many stories have broken in the past 20 years about players being paid? Albert Means at Alabama, Reggie Bush at USC, Clarrett at OSU, Mayo at USC basketball, Ramsey at Auburn, the boys at SMU, free shoes at FSU, and the list is endless--and you say there's no evidence that this goes on? LOL...what rock do you live under?
My father in law is best friends with a player who played under Bear at Bama, and talks about the $100 handshakes all the time. My brother in law lives in Athens, GA and knows several ex-UGA players who have told him personally of receiving money from fans and boosters. Every major football and basketball program out there bends or breaks the rules to some extent. The problem for Auburn, is that there seems to be a systematic scheme in place that included people within the program--not just some rogue fan or booster. That's the type of stuff the NCAA will hammer you for, and that's why auburn fans should be VERY worried about all of this stuff.
This post was edited on 3/30/11 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 3/30/11 at 12:57 pm to King Joey
quote:
Really? Why not?
I dont know why or why not.
SportsbyBrooks runs a popular blog. He said he talked to HBO officials, and they reiterated 4 different times that they do not pay for interviews
Posted on 3/30/11 at 1:02 pm to Lester Earl
Just pay the damn players so they can live the life they are already being given.
For example, Jamarcus Russell use to walk around campus signing autographs, taking pictures, etc... He almost never got anything done but he respected the fans and probably all the beautiful women too. Does anyone think he could have a side job working at Walgreens or something?? No way!
Just give them the money they are going to get anyways, whether it is legally or illegally, the money will be passed around and the athletes will get some of it.
For example, Jamarcus Russell use to walk around campus signing autographs, taking pictures, etc... He almost never got anything done but he respected the fans and probably all the beautiful women too. Does anyone think he could have a side job working at Walgreens or something?? No way!
Just give them the money they are going to get anyways, whether it is legally or illegally, the money will be passed around and the athletes will get some of it.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 2:02 pm to King Joey
quote:
quote:
I am not saying that every player is getting money, but I would say that many are.
quote:
Well that's fine you would say that, but how many? And how would you know? Do you know "many" footbal players?
Like I said I do not know how many and no I do not know of any directly.
So my assumption that it is happening becuase I do not know anyone directly is wrong yet your assumtion is correct since the NCAA has a compliance office to prevent it from happening.
Last I checked the US governemnt has the IRS yet people still cheat on thier taxes. Do I know how many and do I know anyone personally? No, yet I am certain it happens.
Come on man if it was not happening as rampart as it is then Real Sports would not be doing a story about it.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 2:24 pm to medtiger
quote:
'm totally against this. Most of these athletes wouldn't even sniff college if it weren't for their athletic scholarship. They're given a tremendous opportunity to make connections that will help them in life way beyond playing sports. Moreover, they have zero living expenses for 4-5 years (rent, food, clothes, etc) and are given a stipend on top of that. They live better than most college students. On top of that, they get one on one tutoring to make sure they stay in school...no one else gets this without paying for it. Athletes get plenty enough without getting "paid."
I agree, because then you are talking about not just football, but all sports men and women. And where exactly is this money gonna come from? Do they get paid and still have to pay for tuition room and board? or do they get that for free too? Think of the guys that stay here for five years? That is a shite load of money and other free shite they are receiving.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 2:27 pm to ScottieP
quote:Mine is not an assumption at all, it is simply a conclusion based on the greatest amount of data I'm aware of. There's lot of people working to investigate it and according to their info, it's not happening in a pervasive manner on a regular basis. If I had data or evidence weighing against that to support the notion that it is more pervasive and commonplace than the NCAA data suggests, then I might draw a different conclusion. But I don't have such data, and I've yet to meet anyone who, when questioned, could provide it. All I ever hear are either anecdotal "one time I saw . . ." or "a former player told me . . ." stories or "EVERYBODY knows . . . ."
So my assumption that it is happening becuase I do not know anyone directly is wrong yet your assumtion is correct since the NCAA has a compliance office to prevent it from happening.
quote:So am I. And I believe we have a pretty good estimate of how often it happens, and it's not that frequent. IRS data suggests that the vast majority of taxpayers do not cheat on their taxes, and I don't have any reason to believe otherwise. And if I started hearing people talk about how "everybody knows that everybody does it", that would not change my opinion of how often it actually happens unless it came with some credible and persuasive actual data.
Last I checked the US governemnt has the IRS yet people still cheat on thier taxes. Do I know how many and do I know anyone personally? No, yet I am certain it happens.
quote:
Come on man if it was not happening as rampart as it is then Real Sports would not be doing a story about it.
Yeah, because no media outlet ever fabricated, exaggerated or misrepresented a story for their own purposes (like, say, ratings!). Speaking of naive . . . This post was edited on 3/30/11 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 3/30/11 at 2:31 pm to King Joey
Just curious, if you were in a position to give a player or players benefits, would you? If so, would you do it for recruits as well? If not, (assuming you have no ties to the university) what would be your biggest reason not to?
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