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Started By
Message
re: LSU is not a rebuild. LSU hired O to avoid a rebuild.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:48 am to Lester Earl
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:48 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Jake how can you complain about Miles' downward trajectory for years but expect something different in year 1 of a new coach when they fire him(which was long overdue as we both know).
The only thing different is losing to State by four touchdowns. We were expecting the same or a reasonably close facsimile. Not, we are now significantly worse than State.
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Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:50 am to Damone
quote:Actually, those are 2 separate statements, and both are true.
Nearly every name is probably more intriguing than O.
Retrospect clearly has a lot to do with it. Before O was hired, there are probably only 4-5 names on that list who I would have been happy with. But now? I'd take every single person on the list over him.
There ARE only a few coaches that would be truly exciting hires, or who legitimately would have been perceived as solid upgrades over Miles.
There are literally dozens of coaches with much better resumes than Orgeron.
People had enough of Miles and his perceived glass ceiling (good enough for 10+ wins, not good enough to bump Saban from the top)... but the goal should have been to go UP, not just make a kneejerk change.
I was ready for Miles to move on, but I would prefer Miles over Orgeron, and don't mind saying that. If I had to choose between only those two, I was never in favor of O. I'd love it if he proves me wrong, but he's never shown a damn thing as a coach, and he's continuing it now.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:51 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Jake how can you complain about Miles' downward trajectory for years but expect something different in year 1 of a new coach when they fire him(which was long overdue as we both know).
because we basically hired a guy to continue the Miles era, but he happens to be worse at being a HC than Miles
if we hired a legit program builder to come in and disrupt the culture and program, then we could live with a 6-6 season
we didn't go that direction. we went with the choice who was going to maintain our program...but looks to be headed to worse results. O is a miss mash of kind of rebuilding while kind of maintaining our program/culture. how is that going to work out long term? it seems like we're experiencing the bad parts of rebuilding while also maintaining the bad parts of the miles era
that's why O as a "rebuild" coach makes no sense
what are we basing the faith in O to rebuild LSU? he's kept a bunch of the old coaching staff (including the OL coach who has recruited and developed our OL into mediocrity) so we're not rebuilding in terms of our culture or coaching. our coordinator is relying on similar philosophies to our previous regime in terms of gameplanning and playcalling. our DC is the same guy from the old regime.
are we just hoping that O out-recruits Saban and in 3-4 years we'll start winning again?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:51 am to L S Usetheforce
O want even comment on Herron. What makes you think he is ever going to play at all?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:52 am to The Egg
quote:
yeah, Oklahoma is rebuilding huh
Exactly
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:53 am to Lester Earl
quote:
it's not really about getting "his guys" in. Just needs to keep building. This team isn't very good and that would be for any coach here
The point of getting O was that he was an upgrade. If this was going to happen no matter what then what was the point of him? What is his upside? There's clearly none based on his history.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
what are we basing the faith in O to rebuild LSU?
I'd like to know this as well. What part of O's resume tells anyone he can do this?
I mean, am I missing something? As a person, he doesn't seem like a vision-focused builder. As a coach, his record. His approach to the game...ehhh. What is it that makes some people comfortable with O outside of his accent and roux skills?
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 9:54 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:53 am to Damone
quote:What do all of these names have in common? They all have a legitimate reason to be considered. I may really dislike some of them as hires and disagree, but I can at least see why they would be hired. Hiring O is akin to going and getting Curley back on board.
Mark Dantonio
Gary Patterson
Bob Stoops
David Shaw
Brian Kelly
Bobby Petrino
Chris Petersen
David Cutcliffe
Bret Bielema
Kirk Ferentz
Dan Mullen
Mike Gundy
Kyle Whittingham
Pat Fitzgerald
Todd Graham
James Franklin
Justin Fuente
Larry Fedora
Pat Narduzzi
Bronco Mendenhall
Dana Holgorsen
Paul Chryst
Bryan Harsin
Jeff Brohm
PJ Fleck
Mike Macintyre
Derek Mason
Your list is good. And it only encompasses about half of the potential candidates. We fired a coach in September then hired his replacement in December, prior to the end of the season. Which goes back to point of thread, Alleva only had ONE rational thought and that was to keep the positives of the program intact, not rebuild.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:53 am to c on z
but we have not done that in several seasons. Miles would still be coaching if he was contending for titles.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:54 am to Freauxzen
quote:He destroyed Ole Miss, Cutcliffe was a 10 win coach two years prior to O. Nutt was an 8 win coach after O.
I'd like to know this as well. What part of O's resume tells anyone he can do this?
O won 3 games.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:56 am to 1999
quote:
amazing this "rebuild narrative" has been created in just a few days. nobody was mentioning a rebuild until after state drilled us by 30.
It's the reincarnation of the Pumpers and the "We're young", and "Wait 'til next year" bunch. They never left. They just hibernated. It'll get much worse and agonizing as they emerge and begin to procreate.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:59 am to Circus Child
quote:In 2015, we were 7-0 (8-0 with McNeese) and down by 3 at half against Bama. That is contending.
Miles would still be coaching if he was contending for titles.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:01 am to SlowFlowPro
I don't think the point was to rebuild anything, rather just tweak the things that kept Miles from peak output
My point is that you are smart enough to see what this team is, regardless of the coach. This is more of a transition year then a rebuild. I think the master plan is to compete next year. Everyone knew this years team would struggle.
My point is that you are smart enough to see what this team is, regardless of the coach. This is more of a transition year then a rebuild. I think the master plan is to compete next year. Everyone knew this years team would struggle.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:03 am to Freauxzen
quote:
I mean, am I missing something? As a person, he doesn't seem like a vision-focused builder
by definition, he's not. he's deferring to coordinators
which is why O as a builder makes no sense
when you come in to rebuild, you have to say, a/b/c are deficient and we're doing 1,2,3. we have to recruit for this and get coaches to coach this. the first year may suck and the 2nd may have growing pains, but by year 3, if i'm right, 1, 2, 3 will lead to winning
the "O phil-O-sophy" is literally the opposite of this. he has no individual vision for the program and wants to judge the team, ad hoc, and hire "the best" coordinators to resolve any deficiencies as they occur. he's reactionary and passive and rebuilding requires aggression with a solid plan
that's actually what hurt charlie strong at UT. he had a vision and then bent to program influences and kept changing his plan
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:03 am to Lester Earl
quote:
My point is that you are smart enough to see what this team is, regardless of the coach. This is more of a transition year then a rebuild. I think the master plan is to compete next year. Everyone knew this years team would struggle.
Let's see what the Kirby Smart-led Bulldogs do with State this weekend. If my instincts are right, we're all going to feel worse about this loss next Sunday.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:03 am to Lester Earl
You think this team's competing next year, breaking in a new QB, new RBs, losing Key and a lot of others?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i didn't. i really like Mullen
but with Mullen we'd have growing pains this year and i think most would accept it
the point of O was to avoid those growing pains. now it appears we're left with a bad coach AND a rebuild. the worst of both worlds
It's unrealistic to think Mullen would have growing pains but O wouldn't based on our current roster configuration
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:04 am to SlowFlowPro
Last year O finished the year under Mile's system, now he has had the spring and fall to hire and implement what he wanted. I was surprised we did not get any transfer OL I was certain after the injuries, suspension and transfers O would use his strength and go recruit us some transfer OL, from anywhere. I cant blame him for a lack of talent but I do agree he has had two years to get the DL going, with that said we have 3 scholarship kickers. I am resentful of Miles now, I am very pissed at Alleva and Fking, those two imbiciles really did tinker with and damage a proven sales commodity, and some people cant rectify that once it happens. I am in shock everyday I remind myself that O is our head coach, the coach of LSU is EdO.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:05 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:06 am to Lester Earl
quote:
It's unrealistic to think Mullen would have growing pains but O wouldn't based on our current roster configuration
That's incredibly false. Mullen would be bringing in an offense so different, we don't have anyone to run it. Also, Mullen installed a 3-4 this year. Didn't look like his defense needed much of a transition.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:07 am to Goldrush25
quote:
You think this team's competing next year, breaking in a new QB, new RBs, losing Key and a lot of others?
Compete in terms of being back at 10 wins. Our lines should be better and we have a stable of potential pass rushers to replace Key. Our Takented WRs will be Jrs which is when they usually come into their own
As I've said before I think O's timeline lies with Brennan's eligibility. If we can get him some snaps this year I do think they expect next years team to be better than this teams.
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