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Message
re: LSU basketball:Season hanging in the balance?
Posted on 1/9/09 at 2:46 pm to Stromile Swift
Posted on 1/9/09 at 2:46 pm to Stromile Swift
quote:
Lester, did you have Eugene Edgerson from St. Aug's (played at Arizona) on your list?
I was mainly posting the under the radar guys...in fact, i didnt even list the big name guys. but we could start a list if we wanted, but it would prob piss a lot of people of when they realize what LSU could have been.
1
Posted on 1/9/09 at 4:50 pm to Lester Earl
Agreed, I was just on a personal crusade to remember the kid from N.O that played under Lute.
Posted on 1/9/09 at 10:18 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
The only significant difference is the NCAA investigation and impending probation that was hanging over the program when Brady took over. Purely from the standpoint of the quality of players and strength of the team, there's not much difference between then and now.
That is one of the most patently absurd statements posted on this board. The program Brady inherited in 1997 had one quality player in Maurice Carter. Rogers Washington was a decent player. Brady had to scramble in teh spring to sign a bunch of JUCO players just to fill out the roster. This brought us Chico Potts, Cedric Carter, Willie Anderson, and Dejuan Collins.
The NCAA investigation and pending sanctions was a tremendous handicap to operate under. The four straight losing seasons to end Brown's tenure resulted 9th, 8th, 12th, and 12th place finishes in the SEC overall.
Trent Johnson inherited a program two years removed from a Final Four. In the past six seasons the team was 6th, 4th, 2nd, 1st, 12th, and 7th in the league. It had been to three NCAA tournaments and was a lock for a fourth when Lloreda was injured in 2004. During that span there was an SEC title, 2 SEC West crowns, 2 SEC Players of ther Year and three SEC
freshmen of the year. The 2007 team was 12th in the SEC but good enough to beat Tennessee, UCONN and Florida.
quote:
It would be nearly impossible for the program to get any worse than it was when Brady took over, so there was really nowhere to go but up. He improved the program, and even looked at times like he was going to turn it into a powerhouse, but in the end, after the rollercoaster ride was over, the end point wasn't all that much higher than the beginning point
A lot of coaches took over downtrodden SEC programs during his tenure and none of them even won an SEC title, much less earn Final Four and Sweet 16 berths.
The early departure of four great players to teh NBA created the inconsistentcy. The program had just not developed enough after teh NCAA sanctions to afford those losses.
Posted on 1/9/09 at 10:40 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
McCaleb was arguably a better HS player than Temple. He led the NOLA metro area in scoring his SR year.
I wish we had had Bo McCaleb on the team. He developed into a great player at a small school. Uet, it must be noted that no large schools recruited him heavily so he exceeded the expectations of more coaches than Brady.
quote:
No, he actually went to Bradley. That's not a JUCO. Then New Mexico. And, like McCaleb, was a HS standout in the New Orleans area. He was 6-8 and was a monster in HS. Fact of the matter is, he went to Grace King, which is more known for putting out felons than basketball players.
Granger was another who did not generate big school attention and just developed through his college career.
Both players may have had grade issues.
Granger's senior season was 2000 and LSU was under severe shcolarship limitations and signed the players they bes thought would be successful, just like every other school passing on Granger.
In 2003 they signed top 25 guard Tack Minor and had Darrel Mitchell coming off a good freshman year. Why would they make a big push for what was a lightly regarded prospect.
quote:
He wasnt better than the last few guys we had on scholarship? Come the hell on. This kid could play.
Again they signed highly regarded players during Mitchell's senior season. Mitchell developed into a good player, but remember he was the show at USL. He would not have been at LSU.
quote:
Ricky Woods(Carver HS) was 2006 Southland Conf POY at Southeastern LA. Led them the year they almost upset OK ST in the NCAA tournament.
Landry played PG at ULL a little before Mitchell
Ard(Rummel) was a smooth 6-5 swing man, a 3 year starter at Lipscomb and led them in scoring for 3 years and now plays in the NBDL.
Considering what guys like Stehpon Curry is doing, and how teams like Geroge Mason going to the Final Four, you cant sit here and tell me that guys like this cant play in the SEC, or for LSU
You can't sign every player who has promise every year. Just like the players you listed who were not recruited heavily by LSU the same can be said for the Steven Currys of the world who have big schools kicking themselves now for not offering him.
This post was edited on 1/9/09 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 1/9/09 at 11:31 pm to The Cable Guy
quote:
Dwight Lewis was a pretty solid kid from Rummel. He is doing well @ USC. But then again, he commited to LSU, then Kansas, then LSU and all of a sudden ended up @ USC.
Something fishy with that one
I don't believe he ever committed to LSU. He was intent on leaving the state.
Posted on 1/9/09 at 11:44 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Then why did our team suck so badly in his 9th and 10th seasons?
Year 9 2007 - Tyrus Thomas unexpectedly blew up and became a top NBA pick. Magnum Rolle was expected to replace him and play at a high level, but a herniated disc curtailed his development.
Terry Martin was expected to fill the outside shooting void left by Darrel Mitchell and he was inconsistent. Tack Minor was also expected to be a key perimeter threat and he was dismissed for academic reasons.
Brady didn't handle teh Big Baby situation as well as he could have. Davis panicked after being injured in auto accident and pressed at times over concerns of NBA future.
The result was a team good enough to beat Florida, Tennessee, UCONN but which also lost 4 close games on late baskets which if reversed would have gotten them into the NCAA tourney.
Year 10 2008 never got off the ground after early season injuries to Tasmin Mitchell and Quinton Thornton. Just as the team was beginning to develop a new identity Chris Johnson was lost for almost half of teh SEC season. When CJ and QT finally returned they became a very competitive team.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 10:04 am to tiger20
quote:
Then why did our team suck so badly in his 9th and 10th seasons?
Just my opinion, Brady pretty much alienated everyone by that time...the fans, his players, his assistants, the media, high school coaches, his old friends...everyone.
If you remember his speech upon taking the LSU job, his big theme was "relationships". The key to building a successful basketball program was building relationships.
Ironic in that he ultimately did just the opposite.
I think Brady was a much better coach than most will ever give him credit for, but his attitude and abrasiveness too many times compromised that talent.
I think he was one of the top defensive game planners in the country. Coulda used him Tuesday, cause no offense to Trent who I really like, but that game plan was poor and the adjustments not much better.
But bottom line I think we have a good coach who if he can recruit will be here a long time and I'm pleased with that.
Brady had his chance and has only himself to blame for not succeeding.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 12:02 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Just my opinion, Brady pretty much alienated everyone by that time...the fans, his players, his assistants, the media, high school coaches, his old friends...everyone.
This seems to be a frequent assertion by Brady bashers yet no one can ever really give any concrete examples of this. The average fan has little or no contact with college coaches at any university so it is difficult to see how a coach could alienate fans. It seems many just associate results with alienation.
Butch Pierre was with him for 11 years and John Treloar for about five. That does not hint of alienation. Like most programs the younger assistants leave to get better jobs.
As for relationships with high school coaches the program continued to successfully recruit the best players in Louisiana outside of New Orleans. They also signed high profile out of state players like Anthony Randolph, Jmison Morgan, Delwan Graham, Dennis Harris, Magnum Rolle and Chris Johnson in the last few yearss.
One failing of Brady was that he did not do a good enough jof keeping his lesser used players engaged in the process of the team and this led to some defections. He could have given them more playing time in blowout wins even if he stuck to an 8 or 9 player rotation in SEC and big OOC games.
quote:
I think Brady was a much better coach than most will ever give him credit for, but his attitude and abrasiveness too many times compromised that talent.
I think he was one of the top defensive game planners in the country. Coulda used him Tuesday, cause no offense to Trent who I really like, but that game plan was poor and the adjustments not much better.
But bottom line I think we have a good coach who if he can recruit will be here a long time and I'm pleased with that.
Brady never received near the credit for what was accomplished in resurrecting a moribund program which was severely impacted by NCAA sanctions. He always had strong defensive teams and I would like to see Johnson incorporate some of his post defense philosophy of doubling down and forcing the post away from the basket.
The bottom line on Johnson is if he can maintain and even surpass Brady's recruiting he can be here a long time and hopefully become teh most succcessful coach in school history.
quote:
Brady had his chance and has only himself to blame for not succeeding.
That is true to a point. Regardless of all of the other factors if they had gotten one more season out of Stromile Swift, Brandon Bass, Tyrus Thomas, Anthony Randolph and a healthy Lloreda at the end of 2004 Brady might be among the elite coaches in the game today.
It was in the best interest of all that he leave, but hopefully his detractors will step back and appreciate what really occurred over an 8 year period.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 1:48 pm to The Cable Guy
quote:
Unfortunately LSU won't win @ Bama.
I think we have a good chance at beating Bama...
Posted on 1/10/09 at 2:11 pm to tiger20
quote:
Granger was another who did not generate big school attention and just developed through his college career.
Granger was one of the best players in the city his SR year.
And he was an honor student.
quote:
but remember he was the show at USL. He would not have been at LSU.
Im not really asking for any of those guys to be the "Show" at LSU. Role players, 2nd/3rd/4th options on offense. The team would be so much better.
quote:
You can't sign every player who has promise every year.
but you can sign guys like Alex Farrer who have no promise and isnt even from Louisiana?
or Ross Neltner? There are 15 Ross Neltners in LA every year.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 3:07 pm to tiger20
quote:
This seems to be a frequent assertion by Brady bashers yet no one can ever really give any concrete examples of this. The average fan has little or no contact with college coaches at any university so it is difficult to see how a coach could alienate fans.
I've seen him curse out an elderly lady for asking a fairly innocent question about playing time at a 6th man gathering. I've seen him curse out a fan behind the bench at a game. I know for a fact that he snubbed a long time friend and fellow coach (though in the lower ranks of college coaching) at the NCAA meetings after making the final four. One only need look at all the former players coming back to games now after he's gone to draw the conclusion on them (though I think the ever manipulative Brown had much to do with that) and my brother-in-law's company has been a jobber for the hoops team since 1980 so I could go on for awhile but I'll limit it to those examples for now.
quote:
One failing of Brady was that he did not do a good enough jof keeping his lesser used players engaged in the process of the team and this led to some defections. He could have given them more playing time in blowout wins even if he stuck to an 8 or 9 player rotation in SEC and big OOC games.
Player rotation and scheduling were my two biggest beefs with Brady outside attrition, so we agree there.
quote:
It was in the best interest of all that he leave, but hopefully his detractors will step back and appreciate what really occurred over an 8 year period.
Brown napalmed the program then pouts because Brady didn't kiss his arse and kneel before him. He left Brady with the worst program in the SEC and that before probation took affect. I don't blame Brady for not blowing Brown. He could've played it better and smarter like Trent is doing, but what you see is what you get with Brady. Certainly ain't the case with Brown I assure you.
Brady's alieanations are reality tiger20. I wanted him to succeed. I supported the team under him and I never once, like many, pulled for LSU to lose so we'd fire Brady. But it got to the point where we had to make a change and Brady more than anyone is responsible for that.
His record is as good as Gottfried's and Stansbury's and he was more successful than many of the coaches who at the time folks said we could have hired in his stead (Alford, Harrick, Gillen and Evans) so he wasn't as bad as most want to make him out.
But when you're that much of an a-hole, it ain't good enough.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 4:11 pm to Tiger Ugly
While I agree that it should be incumbent upon a public figure like a coach to rise above the fray in most situations it would be good to have more information to place those situations in context when Brady allegedly cursed out certain individuals.
There might be some private issue with Brady's former coaching colleague that has not been made public. There may be two sides to these situations.
As for the point of how many of his former players attend the games can you make a valid comparison to the number of ex Brown players who attended while he was coach.
How many of Brady's players even live in the BR area now? There are a number of ex players in professional basketball either in the NBA or foreeign leagues which would prevent their attendance. There are a lot more opportunities for players to continue their careers thatn existed while Brown was coach. Again, keep it in context.
Brady tried to schedule according to the talent level of his team. It would have been foolish ti schedule a heavy dose of tough teams while the program was limited by NCAA probation. You really can't complain about the schedule since about 2004.
The relationship between Brady and Brown has always been intriguing and in many ways seems symtomatic of LSU's inability to properly utilize revered athletic figures after they leave the university. Brady should certainly harbor no resentment toward Brown about the state of the program he inherited as Brady probably would not have been LSU's coach if it was otherwise.
At the same time Brown should respect taht Brady was trying to implement his own program and system and should not expect Brady to welcome " a ghost in his house." At times it seemed Brady tried to recognize Brown and give him his due publicly.
Now if Brown was doing anything behind the scenes to sabotage Brady then Brady was certainly correct to keep his distance. I am not saying this occurred, but it is possible in some waya this occurred or Brown inadvertently did it.
One other thing could be whether Brady was dealt with straight when he was apprised of the situation with the NCAA. Who knows what he was told. It was clear the level of sanctions was not anticipated.
In the final analysis we should all be proud that we have had the second best program in the SEC behind Kentucky for the past 35 years under these two coaches. Both are flawed in certain ways, but in a quirky sense both were the right man for the times and both can look back on their tenure with pride. While maybe we could have been better under them we could have been a hell of a lot worse. Let's hope that we can look at the Trent Johnson era with even more pride as hopefully he will prove to be the man for his time.
There might be some private issue with Brady's former coaching colleague that has not been made public. There may be two sides to these situations.
As for the point of how many of his former players attend the games can you make a valid comparison to the number of ex Brown players who attended while he was coach.
How many of Brady's players even live in the BR area now? There are a number of ex players in professional basketball either in the NBA or foreeign leagues which would prevent their attendance. There are a lot more opportunities for players to continue their careers thatn existed while Brown was coach. Again, keep it in context.
Brady tried to schedule according to the talent level of his team. It would have been foolish ti schedule a heavy dose of tough teams while the program was limited by NCAA probation. You really can't complain about the schedule since about 2004.
The relationship between Brady and Brown has always been intriguing and in many ways seems symtomatic of LSU's inability to properly utilize revered athletic figures after they leave the university. Brady should certainly harbor no resentment toward Brown about the state of the program he inherited as Brady probably would not have been LSU's coach if it was otherwise.
At the same time Brown should respect taht Brady was trying to implement his own program and system and should not expect Brady to welcome " a ghost in his house." At times it seemed Brady tried to recognize Brown and give him his due publicly.
Now if Brown was doing anything behind the scenes to sabotage Brady then Brady was certainly correct to keep his distance. I am not saying this occurred, but it is possible in some waya this occurred or Brown inadvertently did it.
One other thing could be whether Brady was dealt with straight when he was apprised of the situation with the NCAA. Who knows what he was told. It was clear the level of sanctions was not anticipated.
In the final analysis we should all be proud that we have had the second best program in the SEC behind Kentucky for the past 35 years under these two coaches. Both are flawed in certain ways, but in a quirky sense both were the right man for the times and both can look back on their tenure with pride. While maybe we could have been better under them we could have been a hell of a lot worse. Let's hope that we can look at the Trent Johnson era with even more pride as hopefully he will prove to be the man for his time.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 4:22 pm to Lester Earl
Again Granger did not draw a whole lot of Division I attention so a whole lot of coaches failed to see his potential.
I believe his senior year was right in the middle of the NCAA sanctions and they were limited in signees. He may have been passed over for the Brown kid from Zachary whom they signed out of JUCO who unexpectedly became a first round draft choice.
Dwayne Mitchell may have been in the same situation. Most likely abeing a NEw Orleans recruit he had little interest in LSU. Again, they signed some highly regarded players during those years such as Antonio Hudaon, DArrel Mitchell, Jaime Lloreda and Brown. Occasionally a top player flys below radar and unexpectedly becomes a star. If you are going to criticize Brady for not recognizing Granger's potential you have to offset that with Tyrus Thomas.
They have ahd some good role players. Ross Neltner woould have been exactly that type player at LSU. He looked around and saw the front court talent around him and elected not to stay and compete for playing time. He elected to go somewhere where he could play a larger role. Brady should not be criticized for this. In fact he should be lauded for allowing Neltner to transfer toa nother SEC cshool instead of limiting his options like the Miami football coach recently did for a QB who wants to transfer.
I believe his senior year was right in the middle of the NCAA sanctions and they were limited in signees. He may have been passed over for the Brown kid from Zachary whom they signed out of JUCO who unexpectedly became a first round draft choice.
Dwayne Mitchell may have been in the same situation. Most likely abeing a NEw Orleans recruit he had little interest in LSU. Again, they signed some highly regarded players during those years such as Antonio Hudaon, DArrel Mitchell, Jaime Lloreda and Brown. Occasionally a top player flys below radar and unexpectedly becomes a star. If you are going to criticize Brady for not recognizing Granger's potential you have to offset that with Tyrus Thomas.
They have ahd some good role players. Ross Neltner woould have been exactly that type player at LSU. He looked around and saw the front court talent around him and elected not to stay and compete for playing time. He elected to go somewhere where he could play a larger role. Brady should not be criticized for this. In fact he should be lauded for allowing Neltner to transfer toa nother SEC cshool instead of limiting his options like the Miami football coach recently did for a QB who wants to transfer.
Posted on 1/10/09 at 5:14 pm to tiger20
quote:
Let's hope that we can look at the Trent Johnson era with even more pride as hopefully he will prove to be the man for his time.
Absolutely tiger20.
Going to Lagniappe for supper but may come back and discuss this further in the wee hours tonight.
Posted on 1/13/09 at 10:20 am to Stromile Swift
As expected, LSU lost their SEC season opener against Alabama. This isn't a "must win" for LSU, but it's pretty damn close. LSU needs to protect its homecourt, and they need to avoid an 0-2 start with a trip to Oxford right around the corner.
Posted on 1/13/09 at 10:27 am to Stromile Swift
I agree SS. This is a very important game for this team. SC is a good team, so LSU better be at it's best.
I didn't get to watch the bama game, but it sure sounded like some very bad officiating. I did see the highlight of the MT no-call. That was pretty bad. MT is put together pretty good and Hillman almost knocked him off his feet.
SEC officiating never ceases to amaze me. I don't like to blame officials, but DAMN. Any time you have a 2 to 1 fouls being called, you have to wonder.
I didn't get to watch the bama game, but it sure sounded like some very bad officiating. I did see the highlight of the MT no-call. That was pretty bad. MT is put together pretty good and Hillman almost knocked him off his feet.
SEC officiating never ceases to amaze me. I don't like to blame officials, but DAMN. Any time you have a 2 to 1 fouls being called, you have to wonder.
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