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re: Let's be honest about our basketball roster
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:18 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:18 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:I get what you're saying, but 5 very good starters and 3 good bench players is a full rotation not many teams have this year.
There are 5 very good players on this team, 3 good players and the rest average to poor.
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Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:21 pm to thunderbird1100
I think that’s spot on. I imagine if Smart now was in a similar situation to Tremont Waters as a freshman we’d be seeing high scoring games and someone pressing for the SEC scoring lead. But he’s doing his job and helping us get wins. Wade said Waters had similar issues early last season but when conf started just had the attitude that he was gonna do it his way and it worked. He said Smart is a people pleaser and is working hard to it the way Wade wants.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:24 pm to damnstrongfan
quote:
quote:
quote:
11-7 in the SEC.
You think they are going to lose 5 of their next 7 conference games?
That was my preseason prediction.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:24 pm to DeafVallyBatnR
quote:
This team can make the sweet 16 or lose in first round. Very easily.
In fairness, this same statement can be made about the vast majority of teams in the tournament on any given year.
I get it. LSU has not been regulars of the tournament in a long time, which has likely caused most of our fan base to either not pay attention to it, except maybe peripherally, or to never have paid attention to it all. This has led to many of our fans not understanding the quirkiness of the tournament. Great teams lose early. Okay teams get on a hot streak and/or draw the right match-ups and end up making a run.
For example, I am of the firm belief that if you would have given LSU almost any other match-up besides the one they got in the Sweet 16 last year, then they would have stood a much better chance of winning; because they were a great team. But I knew going into it that MSU was a really bad match-up.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:33 pm to TigerLaw40
Yeah the tournament is entirely unpredictable, every team seeded 5-12ish is in that "well, could go to S16 with relative ease or lose first round". Tournament is a wild place where some low seeded teams always make runs and high seeded teams always will go out way earlier than expected.
Even though the team last year was fully capable, I'm still surprised without Will Wade out there we made the S16, just felt like we ran out juice by that point with all the distractions surrounding the program and ran into a buzzsaw a bit at the same time.
Even though the team last year was fully capable, I'm still surprised without Will Wade out there we made the S16, just felt like we ran out juice by that point with all the distractions surrounding the program and ran into a buzzsaw a bit at the same time.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:33 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Smart PER in conference only play - 17.2
Mays PER in SEC only - 23.9
Williams - 23.6
Watford - 21.4
Manning - 17.7 (although obviously small sample size compared to those guys)
Point noted, and PER is a fine metric in a vacuum, but you start looking at what Smart does for this team. He's basically on an island with how he has shot the 3 in conference play. He's been strong inside/out
you start looking at Watford/Days/Williams and they are all scoring close to the basket. Which is fine. They've been really good. Emmitt has been a monster at drawing fouls and converting at a nice rate on the line. Watford has been good in this realm too. Days is leaving the game early but he's been a monster on the boards when he has been in the game.
so with PER, they get a boost with that just based on the rates and efficiency.
None of them have been able to stretch the court from the outside. Days has actually been detrimental with the way he has shot from 3. They dont necessarily share the ball well.
Smart has just been solid all the way around. Tho he's shooting efficiently for a guard, its hard to match the post guys in efficiency when they are just dunking the ball the majority of the time. Would like to see Smart get to the line more, cause he is physical enough to do so and a good FT shooter.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:38 pm to thunderbird1100
The reason I like us in the tourney is because we’re built very similar to a Michigan St. style team. Versatile combo forwards who rebound like animals and big solid guards. I worry about depth in the backcourt and that we’re still using Mays as our sole closer. I think a 2 man game with Mays and Watford needs a look in late game situations.
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 3:39 pm
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:45 pm to Alt26
quote:
Alt26
Man, did you copy me from my post I made a couple of days ago with almost all of these same numbers?
But obviously I agree with you on all of that. It is why many of our fans need to step back and gain some perspective.
The only thing that I will still disagree with you on is the impact of Tremont at the end of games. While obviously the offense is still every bit as good this year as last year from a production standpoint, I still firmly believe that they miss Tremont's end of game abilities to take control, steady the offense, and break down defenses at the end of the shot clock. While they get that sometimes from Mays and/or Smart, it is not nearly to the consistency level that Tremont gave.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:50 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Even though the team last year was fully capable, I'm still surprised without Will Wade out there we made the S16, just felt like we ran out juice by that point with all the distractions surrounding the program and ran into a buzzsaw a bit at the same time.
I agree with you on the "buzzsaw" comment. And I'm certainly not attempting to minimize the impact or effect the Wade situation had on them. But I believe (and maybe I'm in the minority) that even with Wade and without the distractions, I still think MSU wins that game at least 8 or 9 times out of 10. It's just that pretty much all the things they were really good at, we were bad at. Not to mention the fact of Izzo being one of the best tournament coaches out there.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:55 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Would like to see Smart get to the line more, cause he is physical enough to do so and a good FT shooter.
Definitely agree with this. I feel as though he either doesn't look for his drive enough or gives up on it too easily at times, thus limiting his ability to draw the foul.
But I'll give him this; he is just about as automatic as I have ever seen with the pull up jumper at the elbow and his runners in the lane.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 3:56 pm to TigerLaw40
Gotta disagree and here’s why. Benford benched Taylor to start Smart which was the exact opposite of the formula that got us to where we were last season. With Taylor and KVB in the lineup we went from struggling in both areas to top 10 in defense and rebounding with them. Not only did he start Smart, who was by far our weakest defender, but he matched him up against Michigan States 4 man. He had Naz chasing a shooter around the perimeter, then Mays on the wrong guard. If he was trying to lose the game Benford couldn’t have done more to do it. Also once the starting mix was actually on the floor together we made a run and cut it to 4 mid second half. Then Benford got back to work and they ran away from us. We were the more talented team and while Wade isn’t Izzo yet we’re def a 50-50 or 40-60 chance vs Michigan State with Wade. Beating Kentucky at Kentucky was a more difficult ask.
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:07 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:Jeez, I've seen a bunch of people whining about this, without comprehending what "preseason prediction" means.quote:quote:
11-7 in the SEC.
You think they are going to lose 5 of their next 7 conference games?
That was my preseason prediction.
I agree with you BTW, I thought this team would have a dropoff. We lost more than we added. Don't have the defensive rim protector or the insane ballhandler we had last year. Really don't have a big inside presence.
I guess we both discounted the "good mid-major" style of coaching Wade brings, which allows average players to compete up in level. It DEFINITELY has transferred over to the SEC. Wade has to be in the top 3 in coaching, and I'd honestly say top 2. I don't think Calipari is really that good, he's just riding the Kentucky recruiting machine. Wade would be Bobby Knight/Coach K if he could get that level of player.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:15 pm to Alt26
Last night was a perfect example. The defensive intensity was much higher in the second half. That is due to effort and attitude, not talent. We played better D and rebounded better. All effort and attitude.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:18 pm to Scoob
I wouldn’t trade Wade for anyone
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:18 pm to pufftiger
And we’re playing without arguably our best, most versatile defender in Manning, who’s also an offensive weapon. We haven’t even fielded a 100% team yet this season and we’re still in 1st. If Manning is there noway Vandy beats us, having he and Taylor to guard the two wings that killed us pretty much guarantees that victory and who knows what it does for us momentum wise going into Auburn.
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:27 pm to Madking
Good and valid points. And I never said I thought that we weren't the more talented team. I firmly believe we were more talented. I still just believe that MSU was one of the worst match-ups for us that round.
As for the coaching, I have to first look back and laugh. Not at you, but how many of our "fans" were propping up Benford as being this great coach and saying that the entire post-season was b/c of him and that Wade played no part in it. I appreciate Benford for his time here and his efforts in helping to guide the team through a difficult period of off-court distractions. But to even suggest he was as good or better of a bench coach than Wade the way some people did was just ridiculous.
But I digress...what I was going to say is that you make some good points about his coaching decisions and how they impacted the game. However, Wade and others even talked about how Wade was still in communication with the staff and assisting in scouting and game planning for the tournament. So either that was all untrue, or Benford went rogue on the game plan, or Wade actually signed off on the plan of starting Smart over Taylor, as well as the assignments that were played. Obviously that would not account for any in-game decisions made by Benford based on adjustments and flow of the game.
As for the coaching, I have to first look back and laugh. Not at you, but how many of our "fans" were propping up Benford as being this great coach and saying that the entire post-season was b/c of him and that Wade played no part in it. I appreciate Benford for his time here and his efforts in helping to guide the team through a difficult period of off-court distractions. But to even suggest he was as good or better of a bench coach than Wade the way some people did was just ridiculous.
But I digress...what I was going to say is that you make some good points about his coaching decisions and how they impacted the game. However, Wade and others even talked about how Wade was still in communication with the staff and assisting in scouting and game planning for the tournament. So either that was all untrue, or Benford went rogue on the game plan, or Wade actually signed off on the plan of starting Smart over Taylor, as well as the assignments that were played. Obviously that would not account for any in-game decisions made by Benford based on adjustments and flow of the game.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 4:35 pm to TigerLaw40
Good point it could’ve been Wade who signed off on the changes and matchups. I’m just going by what I saw ya know? The kicker for me was when we made the run to get back in the game Benford went right back to what got us in trouble. Also like you said ppl were excited because we advanced but if you remember Benford blew big leads and nearly cost us both games. I’m not saying we beat State I’m just saying we def had a good chance if Wade was there and we’d already won games in tougher conditions, mainly at UK who was more talented and we all know what goes down in Rupp arena in terms of fairness.
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 2/12/20 at 5:22 pm to Madking
quote:
The kicker for me was when we made the run to get back in the game Benford went right back to what got us in trouble.
Yeah I agree with you on that point.
I've said before on here that I know the game of basketball and can talk basketball with most people. Unfortunately, when I watch games, I just get too caught up in the moment and watch from a pure "fan" perspective. Therefore, I never really get to focus too much on what we are doing schematically or from a match-up standpoint. Obviously there are some things I pick up, just because they are more noticeable. But that is why I appreciate coming on here after games to read posts with analysis from people like you or thunder, and sometimes Alt (
), because y'all are either able to focus in on those things more readily than I can, or you go back and re-watch the games. Either way... 
Posted on 2/12/20 at 5:23 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Are you being honest?
Posted on 2/12/20 at 5:43 pm to TigerLaw40
You’re right, a second look is always helpful. When it’s happening live you’re watching the ball and the man on the ball but on rewatches you can see how everything unfolded. Basketball is a funny sport because all it takes is a couple inches here or there to swing things. If a ball handler is able to turn the corner, if a shooter is getting to his spot on time as opposed to slightly late causing him to rush out of rhythm, getting good position in the paint or that little bit of extra contact on a player that throws them off. These are small things in terms of space that can lead to huge results.
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 5:45 pm
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