re: Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had

Saban and Miles are both great coaches. I think that a reasonable fan would find that both have been tremendous for the program. Which one is better? I don't know, maybe Miles. It's close.

They both won a bunch of games for LSU and took the program to a new level.

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Then explain why coaches who build National Championship programs so rarely ever repeat? Shouldn't Stoops be working on his 10th or 11th National Championship campaign at Oklahoma . . . or at least his 3rd?

Recruiting is of huge significance, but it is not the be-all, end-all of college football success (just ask Mack Brown pre-2005). There are also the huge factors of motivation, focus and pressure. All of these are far easier to manage on a team working to achieve a goal than they are on a team working to achieve a goal again.

Like I said, if sustaining were so much easier than building, then why is it that the vast majority of National Championship-winning coaches have just one National Championship?

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I think we have a different definition of sustaining a program. Staying relevant and remaining in the discussion over a period of time is sustaining a program. Being ranked in top 10 8 out of 10 years for example is sustaining a program. Having a 9-3, 8-4 season once ever 5-6 years is not considered failing to sustain a program it is hard not to have one good year out of 5 or 6 than all great years. Miles had a "good" year in 08 and has gone back to 11-2 last year so he hasn't allowed the program to slip. Even though some people will say he did I don't think one 8 or 9 win season means the program is no longer elite.

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Why on Earth would this response be directed at me?

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Didn't mean to direct it solely at you but to all the saban haters/miles lovers.

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Can you possibly bring yourself to admit that there is a feat in coaching that Nick Saban has NOT accomplished EVER, and has NEVER shown any ACTUAL EVIDENCE that he EVER WILL? (emphasis for those experiencing difficulty grasping the point)

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You are correct if you want to form the opinion based on the criteria you want to use.....he has left every program better than when he got there. Do you really feel he hasn't built bama into a beast? Oh last year they went 10-3 so he is a failure??? Lets see they lost to LSU and USCe on the road and to the NC at home not really a sign the program is in decline. IMO repeating in cfb is almost impossible b/c 18-22 year olds lose motivation after winning a championship. If there were playoffs I think we would see more repeat champs.

Saban will get his opportunity to prove that he can sustain a program b/c I believe he will stay at bama.....which is bad for LSU fans. I wish he would retire, go to Penn St. or back to the pros and I say that out of respect b/c him being at bama only makes it tougher to win sec championships.

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4 11+ win seasons in 6 years is the "norm".

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Ah you had said post-championship

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MY only point is that while he has never proven that ability (at the top 10/better than 10 win level Miles has established as a norm) post-championship, Miles has

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That would be false, unless you do consider 1 season of Top 10/10+ out of 3 a "norm"

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Ah you had said post-championship

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Right. To clarify, I was pointing out how Miles had, post-championship, produced the kind of 11+ win season that has become the norm for his teams at LSU (4 out of his 6 years). The ability to return to that level after having won a National Championship is the element I was noting.

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That would be false

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LSU was 11-2, #8 in the country in 2010. Nick Saban has never had a season that successful at any program after having won a National Championship there.

hey, look at the U (Miami).

Howard Schnellenberger took a perennial also-ran team and made it a national champion in 83. Looking at their prior history, he did more in building that program than anything Saban did here.

He then left, and was replaced by the goofy-looking Okie State coach (Jimmie Johnson with his clear-coat hair). Jimmie won over 80% of his games, but also only 1 NC team, before he left. However, Jimmie's non-championship teams finished much higher for the most part than Howard's non-championship teams.

Jimmie didn't build anything, he took over a defending national champ. Howard took a nobody and won 5, 9, 9, 7 and then 11 games in his 5 yrs.

So who's better between the 2 of them? In terms of building a program, Schnellenberger clearly was. Johnson just maintained, and kept it to the level that Schnellenberger had established. And before you go quoting that Schnellenberger has never matched Saban elsewhere (Bama success vs his lack), note that he left Miami for a failed attempt to coach in the pros (sounds familiar), but then didn't get the chance to coach at an established power like Bama because he was considered an insufferable arse. The lone exception was at Oklahoma, where he coached 1 year, to a 50% record (much like Saban's 6-6 season), but was fired because he was a pompous arse. Bama didn't fire Nick after yr 1, but had they, he might have the same legacy as Schnellenberger.

Miles hasn't won at quite the same percentage as Johnson did, but for the 1st 4 years they were neck and neck. They both had 8-5 seasons coaching teams coming off winning the NC (Miles won his, while Johnson was following Schnellenberger, and he inherited Kosar and Testeverde, while Miles had Lee, Hatch, and JJ). Miles is 5-1 in bowls here, while Johnson was 2-3 at Miami. Miles hasn't been invited to coach the Dallas Cowboys, but he also isn't Jerry Jones old buddy, and he likely wouldn't walk into a position like Johnson did with the Herschel Walker trade either.

Just food for thought.

Wow this thread has some legs. Miles to me made his biggest mistake in hiring coordinators this so far to me is what has separated him and baby bear. Miles decided to experiment with a spread guy in Crowton and tried to make a hybrid offense that just did not have any identity. Saban to his credit would never do this he will stick to what he wants to do no matter what the craze is. I think Miles has learned from this and we will see mcuh more of the offense he ran at OSU which was pretty damn good. This shoud translate to better produciton when you have a idenity and recruite to that offensive philosophy. I think Miles will continue to win 9-10 games a year and sprinkle in another couple of SEC titles and maybe a NC before is it said and done. If he does that he would have to be considered the best LSU coach no matter what the hell baby bear does at that school to the east of us.

You got that right Scoob, I can't wait for LSU baseball to start. No college football really leaves me as a shell of myself pathetic isn't it.

We can always discuss Jefferson vs Mett vs Lee... Actually this type of thread is older... what should be discussing is what impact we blieve the freshman will have on next years team and our take on next years team.

Well it will be warm enough to do some serious fishing soon.

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Well it will be warm enough to do some serious fishing soon.

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that will occupy alot of my w/e's til fall