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re: Jared Jones Stealing

Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:29 am to
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
51562 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:29 am to
quote:

What a terrible “counter”. Good God.

It’s perfectly analogous. That you can’t understand it is on you.

In each case we are dealing with an incremental threat to one’s health. In my example, I exaggerate it to clearly illustrate that even though there are other threats we should still eliminate the incremental one.

The name of this argument technique is Reductio ad Absurdum.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
49986 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:33 am to
quote:

It’s perfectly analogous. That you can’t understand it is on you.


No, it’s not.

quote:

In each case we are dealing with an incremental threat to one’s health. In my example, I exaggerate it to clearly illustrate that even though there are other threats we should still eliminate the incremental one.


Stealing a base wouldn’t be the incremental one. Batting would as he’s more likely to get hurt getting hit by a pitch. Even then, that’s not the point of reducto ad absurdum, or how to use it.

quote:

The name of this argument technique is Reductio ad Absurdum.


You don’t understand how to apply the argument technique.
This post was edited on 2/25/25 at 8:39 am
Posted by LSBoosie
Member since Jun 2020
16522 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:44 am to
quote:

If he's stealing two months from now, it's dumb. Stealing up 8 against a nobody opponent is simply an opportunity to get it on film. It's more for future opponents to worry about. A young bullpen pitcher or catcher throwing it over the 1st baseman's head because he believes the runner is a threat could be the difference in a one run SEC game, which as we all know could be the difference in a regular season SEC title. JJ is playing 4D chess. Most good managers do this.

Hahaha you think other SEC coaches aren't smart enough to see through that but you are? Tony Vitello isn't telling his pitchers they need to worry about Jared Jones stealing a base because he did it up 8 against Nicholls.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
51562 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:46 am to
quote:

Stealing a base wouldn’t be the incremental one. Batting would as he’s more likely to get hurt getting hit by a pitch.

But he has to bat in order to be a baseball position player. So that is NOT the incremental one.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
49986 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:53 am to
quote:

But he has to bat in order to be a baseball position player. So that is NOT the incremental one.


He doesn’t have to play in the field, but he’s more likely to get injured taking a ground ball to the face than stealing a base. You, along with others, apparently don’t understand how rare it is to get injured stealing a base. The additional risk of injury is almost zero.

Also, still don’t understand the technique. For it to apply, I would have had to say something ridiculous. I didn’t. I gave a bunch of baseball scenarios that are in the same vein as stealing a base to cause injury.

Had I said something along the lines of “he’s just as likely to injure himself getting out of bed” or “he’s just as likely to injure himself walking to class” you’d have used it properly.

Trying to bust out the absurd angle for what I posted was just dumb. Sorry
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
51562 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 9:00 am to
quote:

You, along with others, apparently don’t understand how rare it is to get injured stealing a base. The additional risk of injury is almost zero.

I understand. That’s why I have no problem with the Coach greenlighting Jared Jones.
quote:

still don’t understand the technique. For it to apply, I would have had to say something ridiculous

No sir. I don’t think you said anything ridiculous. The purpose of the technique is not to disprove the ridiculous; those are clearly wrong and don’t need to be rebutted.

The technique is to rebut something that is reasonable but still faulty. We exaggerate it into something ridiculous that can easily be seen to be wrong, and due to the same fallacy. The fallacy, now apparent, can then be applied to the original proposition.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
49986 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 9:05 am to
quote:

No sir. I don’t think you said anything ridiculous. The purpose of the technique is not to disprove the ridiculous; those are clearly wrong and don’t need to be rebutted.




Like I said, you don’t understand the technique.

That’s ok.

quote:

The technique is to rebut something that is reasonable but still faulty.


Wrong. You need to brush up on the definition.
Posted by wahoocs
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2004
24469 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 10:31 am to
quote:

This is strictly for the scouts. Coach & Jared are trying to counter the impression that he's slow. It's to improve his draft stock.


Risk of injury far outweighs any chance of draft stock improvement. He needs to cease and desist this nonsense versus less than professional talent behind the plate

Any legit consideration given to his basepath speed would need to be in SEC play at critical moments to even move the needle.

I’m all for enjoying the game, but he should not be risking his ability to perform his actual strengths he provides, power, plate discipline, and adequate defense.

JMO
Posted by Laman1978
Earth
Member since Jan 2009
11384 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 5:56 pm to
quote:

No one is going to think he is a threat because of this
Like Ricky Henderson? No. A mild possibility, yes. It warrants a small degree of attention. And in a game where one tiny mistake can cost you titles, it matters. You need to learn more.
Posted by Laman1978
Earth
Member since Jan 2009
11384 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

Hahaha you think other SEC coaches aren't smart enough to see through that but you are? Tony Vitello isn't telling his pitchers they need to worry about Jared Jones stealing a base because he did it up 8 against Nicholls.
You don't know very much. I won't waste my time explaining.
Posted by tigertim
Tulsa, Ok
Member since Aug 2005
713 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 6:40 pm to
40-40 club
Posted by paper tiger
acadiana
Member since Feb 2006
1199 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 6:59 pm to
I doubt at any future time you will see Jones on a straight up steal. He runs well for a guy who looks like Reacher, but he would get thrown out by a lot of high school catchers if he tried a straight steal.

I think most every player on a college team, save maybe for a player nursing an injury that could be aggravated by sliding, should be coached on when to make “read” steals and know their limits.

If a ball gets by the catcher to the screen, everyone should steal. The harder cases are where the ball gets away from the catcher, but not to the screen and the player and coach have to read the play and make instant decisions as to whether the catcher can get to the ball and make the throw in time.

Jones seems to be a smart guy with a high baseball iq. He’s played enough ball to know when to take his chance if a ball gets away from the catcher and when not to. Sometimes the value if moving a guy to second to get in scoring position and out of a double play ball is worth the risk that the ball did not wander far enough away from the catcher.

I would be shocked, though, to see Jones taking off on the pitch on a called steal at any future time this year. He might get thrown out more than half the time even with a good jump.
Posted by LSBoosie
Member since Jun 2020
16522 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 7:01 pm to
quote:

You don't know very much. I won't waste my time explaining.

Alright, how many times in SEC play do you think a team will throw over to a base that is occupied by Jared Jones?
Posted by Ipissexcellence
Member since Dec 2018
443 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 8:54 pm to
Just like football, you get hurt when you are on the field trying to not get hurt. Go out and play ball. If a player decides to sit out at the end of the season they are spoiled bitches, but people are suggesting that a player play ball and not play as hard as he can.
Posted by Keltic Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2006
21431 posts
Posted on 2/25/25 at 9:38 pm to
I think he was running to stay out of a double play, not actually trying to steal.
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