- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
1
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:21 pm to ZeeDustin
quote:
undrafted, saying Saban got more out of him then what he should.
Nope
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:27 pm to redstick13
quote:
I think you have to also look at the quality of the SEC as a whole when Saban came in versus when Miles entered the picture. Sure Miles took over an established LSU team, but look at the coaching, recruiting, and overall level of the competition now. Nobody in their right mind can argue that the SEC isn't the best conference with the best coaches and Miles is consistently beating that competition.
The SEC was a two pony show when Saban came to LSU, Florida and Tennessee. Spurrier was soon to be coaching the Redskins and Tennessee was entering their slide down the scale. Auburn was still recovering from probation, Alabama was going through coaching turmoil and probation was just around the corner. UGA wasn't yet at their current level. His biggest competition at the time was Ole Miss and Arkansas.
What? No comments?
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:43 pm to redstick13
It's hard to disregard the facts. 
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:46 pm to redstick13
A couple of thoughts here. Saban would NEVER take over a successful program. He's too much of a control freak and needs a losing program to show fast results. If he did take over a successful program like Miles did at LSU I don't think he would be successful with how he manages a program. He would piss to many people off. Miles handled the situation/transition seamlessly.
I'm shocked Saban's results fell apart in November. This is pure failure on his part. I'm curious to see if he can turn it around next year.
The Major Applewhite hire bit him in the butt big time. He's still has a questionable staff around him. At least 2 or 3 will leave again next year.
I'm shocked Saban's results fell apart in November. This is pure failure on his part. I'm curious to see if he can turn it around next year.
The Major Applewhite hire bit him in the butt big time. He's still has a questionable staff around him. At least 2 or 3 will leave again next year.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:54 pm to redstick13
quote:
I think you have to also look at the quality of the SEC as a whole when Saban came in versus when Miles entered the picture. Sure Miles took over an established LSU team, but look at the coaching, recruiting, and overall level of the competition now. Nobody in their right mind can argue that the SEC isn't the best conference with the best coaches and Miles is consistently beating that competition.
The SEC was a two pony show when Saban came to LSU, Florida and Tennessee. Spurrier was soon to be coaching the Redskins and Tennessee was entering their slide down the scale. Auburn was still recovering from probation, Alabama was going through coaching turmoil and probation was just around the corner. UGA wasn't yet at their current level. His biggest competition at the time was Ole Miss and Arkansas.
Sure the SEC is the top tier right now but it isnt like they were ever in the lower tier. From a coaching standpoint as well.
You also have to look at the way the programs were run. Nick came in having to run and turn around every aspect of the program, Miles came into a program that runs itself.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:56 pm to TenTex
I think he is without a doubt a top 10 coach.His way of doing things is a bit different than most,but very effective.His teams in the time he has been here have shown up to play four quarters of hard-nosed foot ball every game but one.That was ole miss two years ago.He can obviously motivate and manage the entire corporation that is LSU FB.He also keeps his ego in check when it comes to hiring established co-ordinators,thats a sign of a great CEO.And last but not least he is good in the living room of the kids he really wants and that quality can't be replaced.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 2:57 pm to ZeeDustin
quote:
You also have to look at the way the programs were run. Nick came in having to run and turn around every aspect of the program, Miles came into a program that runs itself.
What about the new DC hire and oh yeah, those two little storms he had to deal with his first year?
You people continue to discredit the man.
This post was edited on 5/8/08 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:00 pm to ZeeDustin
Here's a little test for all of you:
List your top ten coaches. Exclude Miles from consideration.
Now count how many of your top ten have a BCS trophy.
Results are the only thing that matters.
List your top ten coaches. Exclude Miles from consideration.
Now count how many of your top ten have a BCS trophy.
Results are the only thing that matters.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:03 pm to specs1
And I'm sorry but Nick did not have to turn around every aspect of the program. Some of you may be too young to remember the initial success DiNardo had and the positive affect it had on recruiting. DiNardo's problem was he did not understand how to maintain discipline and he lost control of his team. Saban's biggest contribution his first year was his ability to take back control and provide leadership to the team.
Something he was unable to do his first year at Alabama.
Something he was unable to do his first year at Alabama.
This post was edited on 5/8/08 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:10 pm to redstick13
You can take it or leave it but the person that got LSU football initially turned around was none other than Gerry Dinardo. He did the groundwork for Saban. Saban brought in a tough defensive mentality and good work ethic which is what the team needed. Bama likes to believe this was the problem with their program and that Saban would be able to do the same with their team but based on the on and off the field results thus far there seems to be more there than that.
With the introduction of the spread offense (remember Saban never had to deal with Spurrier's fun and gun much) I think it's going to take more than a HC that knows how to coach up the D and recruit well to dominate the SEC and win an NC.
You need good coaching across the board and Saban is too much of a control freak to allow that to happen.
With the introduction of the spread offense (remember Saban never had to deal with Spurrier's fun and gun much) I think it's going to take more than a HC that knows how to coach up the D and recruit well to dominate the SEC and win an NC.
You need good coaching across the board and Saban is too much of a control freak to allow that to happen.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:14 pm to redstick13
quote:
What about the new DC hire and oh yeah, those two little storms he had to deal with his first year?
You mean the guy who was so great at his job, he is the head coach at Nebraska? Nick runs his defense, he doesnt need a great DC.
We will see how great Miles is this year. He dodged another bullet by the RP situation. Instead of the blame going to his decision to hire within, it will be placed on no RP.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:22 pm to ZeeDustin
I think Little Nicky gets too much credit and Gerry DiNardo too much blame. Gerry didn't exactly leave the cupboard bare talent wise. His biggest failure was his inability to micromanage and hiring Lou Tepper. The offense was as good as ever under GD but it was Teppers d that was the main culprit in the program going into it's slide. Had DiNardo's d been worth a shite he might still be coaching here.
Saban came in and his hires of Jimbo and Pete Jenkins were instrumental in making the program successful. Jenkins was a super recruiter who turned around recruiting in NO. Marquise Hill for example.
Some folks knocking Les for having "good football fortune" (to borrow a term from Skip) in winning some games and getting to the NC seem to forget that were it not for that same "good football fortune" in both '01(3 SEC losses) and '03, Saban would never have even sniffed either an SECC or BCSNC, much less won them.
As far as Les "winning with Saban's players", either Jacob Hester or Early Doucet put that bullshite to rest when he said, "I might have been recruited by Nick Saban but I play for Les Miles. He's our coach!" And I think that was emphasized even more when the team gave Les the Bama game ball!
Saban couldn't and still can't keep good coaches with him, if he can even get them. Hiring of and continuity of a good staff, which actually does most of the coaching and recruiting, is one of Les' strong points.
Saban is like an Old West snake-oil salesman who knows he's full of shite, makes a killing money wise and then runs off before people get wise to his act. Les is the sheriff in the white hat.
Saban came in and his hires of Jimbo and Pete Jenkins were instrumental in making the program successful. Jenkins was a super recruiter who turned around recruiting in NO. Marquise Hill for example.
Some folks knocking Les for having "good football fortune" (to borrow a term from Skip) in winning some games and getting to the NC seem to forget that were it not for that same "good football fortune" in both '01(3 SEC losses) and '03, Saban would never have even sniffed either an SECC or BCSNC, much less won them.
As far as Les "winning with Saban's players", either Jacob Hester or Early Doucet put that bullshite to rest when he said, "I might have been recruited by Nick Saban but I play for Les Miles. He's our coach!" And I think that was emphasized even more when the team gave Les the Bama game ball!
Saban couldn't and still can't keep good coaches with him, if he can even get them. Hiring of and continuity of a good staff, which actually does most of the coaching and recruiting, is one of Les' strong points.
Saban is like an Old West snake-oil salesman who knows he's full of shite, makes a killing money wise and then runs off before people get wise to his act. Les is the sheriff in the white hat.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:23 pm to ZeeDustin
quote:
We will see how great Miles is this year. He dodged another bullet by the RP situation. Instead of the blame going to his decision to hire within, it will be placed on no RP.
Dodged a bullet??? I would have to say he got hit with that bullet. I think he has been great already. What more could you ask for?
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:30 pm to redstick13
Miles is only a top 10 coach if you only count the last 3 years. He is not a top ten active coach. There are plenty of coaches in college football that are better than Miles. What is working against him is he hasn't coached long enough and hasn't made a major impact anywhere except LSU.
Top Ten (Active) Coaches (not in order):
1 Pete Carroll
2 Jim Tressell
3 Bob Stoops
4 Rich Rodgriguez
5 Steve Spurrier
6 Bobby Bowden
7 Joe Paterno
8 Mack Brown
9 Frank Beamer
10 Urban Meyer
Some close calls Mark Richt, Nick Saban
Best Coaches over the last 3 years (not in order):
1 Urban Meyer
2 Les Miles
3 Pete Carroll
4 Jim Tressell
5 Rich Rodriguez
After these guys, there are a bunch of other coaches like Richt, Kelly, Schiano, Beamer, Brown, Spurrier, etc.. You guys can argue the rest.
Top Ten (Active) Coaches (not in order):
1 Pete Carroll
2 Jim Tressell
3 Bob Stoops
4 Rich Rodgriguez
5 Steve Spurrier
6 Bobby Bowden
7 Joe Paterno
8 Mack Brown
9 Frank Beamer
10 Urban Meyer
Some close calls Mark Richt, Nick Saban
Best Coaches over the last 3 years (not in order):
1 Urban Meyer
2 Les Miles
3 Pete Carroll
4 Jim Tressell
5 Rich Rodriguez
After these guys, there are a bunch of other coaches like Richt, Kelly, Schiano, Beamer, Brown, Spurrier, etc.. You guys can argue the rest.
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:34 pm to Bloodworth
quote:
Saban couldn't and still can't keep good coaches with him, if he can even get them. Hiring of and continuity of a good staff.
See Bob Stoops and Pete Carroll for reference. Neither have made it back to the big game since their NC winning supporting cast have left. Not saying they won't get there again. USC should get there on their talent and PAC 10 schedule. OU hasn't hit on all cylinders since Mike Stoops left.
The days of being a do it all coach are falling by the wayside and Saban will too if he's not careful. He can get by in a MSU or even an LSU but Bama fans have expectations for exceeding all other fanbases. The job of head football coach has been undergoing changes the past 10 years. Good management skills seem to be the most valued skill these days.
This post was edited on 5/8/08 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:36 pm to Sammich
Miles hasn't had to build up anything- just keep it stocked.
He's done a great job doing that.
You really think Peveto did a great job with our special teams?
People were screaming all year about that silly formation we used. Fortunately, it didn't cost us.
Fisher could boom the ball but he was terrible at placing it to pin the opponent deep. Peveto never taught the guy to angle the ball out of bounds.
Our coverage was horrible on both kick & punt returns. Nearly cost us the Alabama game.
Opposing offenses were consistently getting great starting field position.
Did he ever get our kickers to where they could get that ball inside the 10 on kickoffs?
Do I even have to mention that he had all spring, summer, and fall to find a competent punt returner and couldn't.
Colt David is the only thing about our special teams that deserved high praise.
Peveto did a piss poor job with special teams (1/3 of the game) and he gets a promotion.
If you have a business and one of your employees isn't able to handle the responsibity that you give him, would you promote him to a position that's more important?
He's done a great job doing that.
You really think Peveto did a great job with our special teams?
People were screaming all year about that silly formation we used. Fortunately, it didn't cost us.
Fisher could boom the ball but he was terrible at placing it to pin the opponent deep. Peveto never taught the guy to angle the ball out of bounds.
Our coverage was horrible on both kick & punt returns. Nearly cost us the Alabama game.
Opposing offenses were consistently getting great starting field position.
Did he ever get our kickers to where they could get that ball inside the 10 on kickoffs?
Do I even have to mention that he had all spring, summer, and fall to find a competent punt returner and couldn't.
Colt David is the only thing about our special teams that deserved high praise.
Peveto did a piss poor job with special teams (1/3 of the game) and he gets a promotion.
If you have a business and one of your employees isn't able to handle the responsibity that you give him, would you promote him to a position that's more important?
This post was edited on 5/8/08 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:41 pm to Geert Hammink_43
quote:
Miles hasn't had to build up anything- jdut keep it stocked.
He's done a great job doing that.
You really think Peveto did a great job with our special teams?
People were screaming all year about that silly formation we used. Fortunately, it didn't cost us.
Fisher could boom the ball but he was terrible at placing it to pin the opponent deep. Peveto never taught the guy to angle the ball out of bounds.
Our coverage was horrible on both kick & punt returns. Nearly cost us the Alabama game.
Opposing offenses were consistently getting great starting field position.
Did he ever get our kickers to where they could get that ball inside the 10 on kickoffs?
Do I even have to mention that he had all spring, summer, and fall to find a competent punt returner and couldn't.
Colt David is the only thing about our special teams that deserved high praise.
Peveto did a piss poor job with special teams (1/3 of the game) and he gets a promotion.
If you have a business and one of your employees isn't able to handle the responsibity that you give him, would you promote him to a position that's more important?
I think you should go take a look at the special team's play of other teams. This is preposterous paragraph. People stopped complaining about the new punt formation after the VT game. You're still living in 2006. In case you didn't know, VT is considered the best special teams players in all of CFB and LSU did superb against them. The punt formation is designed to allow initial penetration so the guys on the line can release downfield for coverage. The only time our punt formation broke down last season was when Fisher didn't get enough distance on his punts and the coverage overan his kicks.
And you do realize they changed the kickoff point last season and almost none of the kickers were reaching the endzone? But I guess Peveto should have known that rule change was coming and had a long boomer ready for it?
Posted on 5/8/08 at 3:48 pm to Geert Hammink_43
quote:
hasn't made a major impact anywhere except LSU
I think the Zero U fans would argue with you on that! What he's done at LSU aside, what he accomplished at Okie St. is more a testament to Les' coaching abilities. He came into a program that was COMPLETELY in the shitter in EVERY aspect and turned it around. While he didn't win any championships, he raised the level of talent and made a doormat team competeitive. He raised the level of Okie ST. exponentionally higher than Saban did LSU. People outside of Okla. have absolutely NO IDEA of how bad a situation Les came into at Okie ST.!
And last I checked, Peveto ain't coaching special teams anymore! Les just hired the #1 special teams coach in the country, thus further proving my point about hiring and maintaining a good staff!
Posted on 5/8/08 at 4:10 pm to redstick13
quote:
I think you should go take a look at the special team's play of other teams. This is preposterous paragraph. People stopped complaining about the new punt formation after the VT game. You're still living in 2006. In case you didn't know, VT is considered the best special teams players in all of CFB and LSU did superb against them. The punt formation is designed to allow initial penetration so the guys on the line can release downfield for coverage. The only time our punt formation broke down last season was when Fisher didn't get enough distance on his punts and the coverage overan his kicks.
And you do realize they changed the kickoff point last season and almost none of the kickers were reaching the endzone? But I guess Peveto should have known that rule change was coming and had a long boomer ready for it?
The Va. Tech game was about as perfect of a game as a team can play. By the time we had to punt, the game was out of reach.
Miles has explained why they use that sceme, but I don't recall him describing it the way you do.
I think he said it had something to do with the deep snapper having issues getting the ball back there quick enough and being able to block his man.
But if your explanation it accurate, it needs to be changed because our coverage wasn't that good.
Again, if Peveto would have taught Fisher to angle the ball instead of kicking in down the middle of the field, coverage wouldn't have been such an issue and our defense wouldn't have had it back to wall as much.
Getting distance was never a problem with Fisher. He & Chad Kessler were incredible at kicking the ball down the field. But our cover guys overan the returner once or twice nearly every game.
Yes, I realize they moved kickoff back 5 yards. I also saw other kickers consistently putting the ball inside the 5. Touchbacks didn't drop off that much either.
What's your explanation for our bad kickoff coverage, having a year to develop a punt returner and not do it?
Stop making excuses for the job that he didn't do this year.
Page 8 of 15
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News