re: If you consider les miles a "great" coach, please

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I might be the only one that believes that this team will play better when this senior class is gone

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I also believe that this team will play better when they are gone, but it has nothing to do with them. I think they had the misfortune of playing the last year of their outstanding careers at LSU under subpar DCs, and that the replacements next year will have nearly equal, equal, or even superior talent, and with better coaching will perform better than this year's team has.

Joey, Apples and Oranges, and you know it. What Saban inherited to work with and Miles, two different situations entirely. Some talent but lil' or no depth prior, and not like the recruits of present.

Yes, I was totally confident in Saban after the Tenn game on forward, as he was selling and landing the best recruits in the nation already, and LSU had itself an bigtime HC. And whether an alibi to Saban or not, to use a Sabanesque terminology "relative to the process/situation" it was far more understandabale and acceptable at the time for LSU to have some struggles and inconsistent W-L issues in the early going of his tenure than is for of present at LSU.

Besides, the devil is in the details, in the modus operandi, the grip of the program, the total competency to iron out issues as they arise. I'm sorry if you find my faith in the former greater than the latter, to be more assuring to my eyes.

Quit being a child using exaggerative words like "doom," as I never said any sign of a 5 loss campaign nor Miles current #1 recruiting class signals any such thing. But, there is great cause for concern.

And yes, if Bama is to lose more than three games next year, it will have to be considered a backslide of a campaign.

You act as if I or others here have said that Miles in a bad HC, I clearly state him to be a good HC, which can't be said of some in this thread, just think him to slightly below par of Saban and Meyer, of whom he must compete and beat, in order to win hardware.

Until the stats below improve, I believe I have the right to reserve final declarations either way..

Miles vs Meyer..2-2..two close wins at home by 4, holding them off late..one rout and one gift-wrapped shoulda-coulda-woulda by double-digits at The Swamp.

Miles vs Richt..0-2..both by double-digits despite one being at home & one in UGA Dome..

Miles vs Saban 1-1..both close games.

Miles vs Tubby 3-1..all close games..LSU more talented all four years..yet all life-and-death..one requires 5 missed FGs..one a bad generous spot by the refs for LSU & then great last-second TD toss..one against LSU by hosejob refs and stubborn HC into 8-in-box all day with bunch formation.

Miles vs Nutt..2-2..Nutt 2-0 in Tigerstadium last 2 yrs..LSU vastly more talent all four years.

Miles vs Fulmer 2-1..all very close games..LSU vastly more talent all three games. Now, Tenn with Kiffin, and possibly with better Offenses than of late?

Miles vs Brooks..1-1..split home and away vs decent not great Ky teams.

Miles vs Petrino..0-1..despite having 19 outgoing Seniors vs a bunch of leftovers, a Frosh/Soph team minus it's best RB, two OL, and best LB.. and a couple of Dicks.

That's a whopping 11-11 ledger vs the SEC's Best HCs & Programs, vs schools that LSU must face to win the West and/or SEC titles, this despite LSU having the talent edge usually, sans the UF/UGA tilts being fairly equal, less or more some years. And being during LSU's greatest window of winning ever, with it's greatest talent edges ever over most SEC foes. With LSU the best team in the country in 2007, being team 1-A in 2006, and #5 in 2005(yet actually about the third best in the land)..how's that for a Miles compliment?

P.S. LSU has lost 3 of their last 4 SEC games in TigerStadium.

These are the Miles numbers where LSU makes or breaks itself, in SEC play.

Oh really now. And what better labels that 2006 day in The Swamp better than "gift-wrapped shoulda-coulda-woulda?"

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11-11

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ouch

I'm just saying. Obviously the people you are dealing with here are knowlegable fans. At least that's how King Joey seems to me (as do you). We all remember that crappy game.

Besides, all Joey has to do is comeback with that egg we layed against Florida in 2003. It's a never-ending circle.

Just for the record I'm going to qualify my last statement by saying that 2003 was the most talented team we had.<---I can be just as subjective as the next guy.

I can't believe I read this whole aggravating-arse thread but I find it interesting how not enough attention is given to the scoreboard...

Who cares how we win? It all looks the same on record.
Who cares if our NC was considered lucky? We still have the Crystal Ball with our name on it.
Who cares about whether the final pass play at Auburn was a good call or not? Bottom line it worked so it was a good call.
Who cares if we barely beat some teams we should have blown out? A win is a win.

Judge a coach by three things:
WINS
Recruiting
Representing the university

Back sliding, upswing, excuses for why we lost or reasons why a win was not good, it is all just useless talk.
Miles has an excellent won/loss record. He has won big games at critical moments.
Miles is an excellent recruiter.
Miles is a good representative of LSU, cares for his players and is a class act.

I don't know if he is great but I do know I would take him over all but about 5 coaches in CFB. That is good enough for me.

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OK. Fire him for a 10-2 season

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At the beginning of that post, I said you can't fire him after this year, so calm down. Also, I said a bit disappointing, not "I'm fricking outraged!!!" I think everyone deep down was a bit disappointed that JR, Bowe, Davis, Landry, and Dorsey didn't get an SECCG shot.

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Speculation, has no basis. Again, 10-2 with an SEC championship and a NC but you bring up this year as a reason to fire him?

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When did I say fire him in this post? I just said he underachieved as a coach last year. Lot's of questionable calls and a lot of games that should have gone differently.

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Ummm...he has the best winning % in LSU history at this point, with 2 SEC West Titles, an SEC championship, and a NC. WTF are you talking about?

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Talent does a lot for a coach. Like I said earlier, all is fine and dandy when the talent is ridiculous and we're doing well, but we got a different look at him as a coach this year. I don't know why people are acting like Les' first three years are all that matter. I'm not discounting our success in any of them, but people on here are basically sayin "well he won a MNC, SEC title" yada yada without ever saying "but he did go 3-5 in the SEC this year".

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Fans like you are the reason Auburn is where they're at right now.

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Tubbs is a great coach, but they can't recruit. If they had hired a Turner Gill, he would have been a fresh new face that a lot of kids could relate to better than a 50 something year old white guy. They did downgrade big time with Chizik though.

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No, I don't care how we win if we win from here on. That will disprove the whole "Saban's recruits" argument.

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Not in any rational way. There is no rational way that argument could have been made in any previous year that it could not also be made next year. Of course, that's because it cannot be rationally made for any of the last three years at all.

When a 5th year coach leaves and the talent improves for three years, it's not because of his recruits. When a 5th year coach leaves and the record improves for three years, it's not because of his recruits. So long as people fail to grasp this simple and obvious fact, they are clearly refusing to consider the question rationally.

I wonder why no one has yet offered a rational, coherent and thorough explaination of how Saban's recruits improved the talent three years later over his 2004 talent level of #1, #15, #1 and #2 recruiting classes? I mean, a full #1 recruiting class of 4th year players, with another #1 class of 2nd year players to fill in the rest of the gaps, a full #15 class of 3rd year players to provide some depth and a #2 class of freshmen to plug in where useful; and somehow, three years later -- with one of those #1 classes completely gone, another one almost completely gone -- the talent got better, specifically the depth? And Miles gets no credit for this?

That's a rational argument?

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If he wins, say, 10 games next year, I'll be extremely pleased with him.

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Will that be different than last year? Were you not pleased with him last year?

The question was regarding your impression of him. If he goes 11-2 next year, would you believe you were wrong about him now?

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Absurd. Because I say we lucked into it, that means I'm not happy about it?

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He didn't say you weren't happy about it. He said you sounded like you were ready to give it back because you felt we didn't deserve it, which is absolutely true. You have made no suggestion whatsoever that you believe last year's team in any way did anything to earn a Championship. But now you get indignant?

So answer the question straight: did last year's team earn the National Championship or not?

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And the suggestion that this is a "delusional" confidence is simply absurd. The only "delusional" position here is the "trepidation" over a single anomaly that ignores the vast majority of the evidence.

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Thanks, Joey.

I'd like to see if any of the haters are here next year and own up to their panic-sticken behavior when things are fixed and back on track next year.