re: If you consider les miles a "great" coach, please

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SlowFlowPro

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Douchebag Alert..

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Maybe it's just coincidental that we go 7-5 the year after the majority of Saban's stud players leave.

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Stud players? Like Tyson Jackson, Big Herm, Kirston Pittman, Charles Alexander, Marlon Favorite, Brett Helms, Tremaine Johnson? We lost more Saban players after 2006 than we did after 2007, and yet the performance got better. Now, when we lose even fewer Saban players than we did that year PLUS lose our Defensive Coordinator and replace him with subpar coaching, suddenly it's the loss of Saban talent that made the difference between 12-2 and 7-5? How is it then that the loss of Saban "studs" from 2006 to 2007 resulted in an increase in performance?

Bottom line: if the talent is better 3 years after Saban left than it was in his 5th year, then he was outrecruited by his successor. And whether Miles recruited better to improve the talent level or coached the same talent better, he delivered better performances his first three years than Saban was when he left. Miles' first three years averaged better than Saban's National Championship season and the season he followed it up with. The coaching got better, period. Only delusion can conclude otherwise, because guys who have been gone for two years DO NOT IMPROVE YOUR TALENT.

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Stud players? Like Tyson Jackson, Big Herm, Kirston Pittman, Charles Alexander, Marlon Favorite, Brett Helms, Tremaine Johnson?

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They did pretty well last year, didn't they? Miles' poor coaching and especially his DC choice led to these players poor seasons. What other excuse is there? Did they automatically just get worse with age?

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We lost more Saban players after 2006 than we did after 2007, and yet the performance got better.

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First of all, we had more players drafted in the 1st round in 06, but did not lost more players. Second of all, how did we get better? We played a weaker schedule and finished with the same amount of losses.

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Now, when we lose even fewer Saban players than we did that year PLUS lose our Defensive Coordinator and replace him with subpar coaching, suddenly it's the loss of Saban talent that made the difference between 12-2 and 7-5?

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It's the absence of the talent. We run the same defensive scheme this year without Bo. If we had last year's seniors, would we have done so poorly? If you don't want to blame it on that, then at least agree to this:

- Miles fricked up with the defense
- Miles fricked up by not recruiting a QB at all in 06.

He left our defense in a horrible position, and our offense in the hands of noodle arm and a bunch of freshmen. Either way you look at this year, it's a monumental frick up by him.

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How is it then that the loss of Saban "studs" from 2006 to 2007 resulted in an increase in performance?

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Performance didn't increase.

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Bottom line: if the talent is better 3 years after Saban left than it was in his 5th year, then he was outrecruited by his successor.

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So 2005/2006's success was due to Les' 13 player sophomore class and his freshman class? Need we look at the amount of players Les recruited that started?

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And whether Miles recruited better to improve the talent level or coached the same talent better, he delivered better performances his first three years than Saban was when he left.

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MILES HAD BETTER TALENT. Jesus.

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Miles' first three years averaged better than Saban's National Championship season and the season he followed it up with.

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You actually think Les is a better coach, don't you. I don't know how many times you will just overlook the talent difference. Just for shits and giggles, look at the QBs:

02 - Randall/Mauck
03 - Mauck
04 - Randall/Freshman JR

The guys who received the majority of the playing time haven't amounted to shite and were NOT talented QBs.

Now, let's look at some other QBs who were Saban's recruits (once LSU became relevant again) that played for Les:

05 - Sophomore JR - Top Pick
06 - Jr. JR - Top Pick
07 - 5th year Senior Flynn - 2nd on Packers roster

Could you imagine what LSU would've done with an older Jamarcus and a stable Matt Flynn in 02/03/04?

[quote]The coaching got better, period.[/quote]

I bolded this because King Joey truly believes Les is a better coach than Nick.

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- Miles fricked up with the defense

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Yes, and more precisely he apparently made a bad hire at DCs.

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- Miles fricked up by not recruiting a QB at all in 06.

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I'm not sure what you mean here, but since we did recruit a QB (Lee) in '06, I'm going to assume you mean not signing a QB in the '06 class. But then, I wonder what you would think of Saban not signing a QB in the '04 class, who would have been our 5th year Senior this year, or keeping a QB from the '01 OR '02 class, leaving us with only Marcus Randall and RS Freshman JaMarcus Russell in 2004?

Going into '06 (when we would have been signing the QB of which you speak), we had two RS Juniors -- Russell and Flynn -- and a RS Freshman -- Perrilloux. We were also recruiting a highly rated QB for the '07 class (Lee) and another for the '08 class (Jefferson). That would have left us with no fewer than 3 QBs on the roster for any given season. That's pretty much the same count that Saban maintained until his failure to sign any in 2004 left us with just two going into 2005.

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Performance didn't increase.

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12-2 isn't better than 11-2?

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So 2005/2006's success was due to Les' 13 player sophomore class and his freshman class? Need we look at the amount of players Les recruited that started?

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First of all, I said THREE years after Saban left. Count them: 2005 (ONE), 2006 (TWO), 2007 (THREE). That's the 2007 season I'm talking about, when the talent was so much better than Saban's '04 team that even Saban's superior coaching couldn't match their performance.

And, for the record, I don't think the increase in performance was primarily due to the talent at all. I think it was the coaching by Miles and his staff (especially 2007). But if y'all want to keep insisting that the talent kept getting better the longer Saban was gone, then it must have been because of Miles recruiting classes. Because Saban didn't add a shred of talent to this team after 2004.

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MILES HAD BETTER TALENT.

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Okay. Fine. How did LSU end up with better talent 3 years after Saban left than it had after 5 years of Saban's recruiting?

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I don't know how many times you will just overlook the talent difference.

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I'm not overlooking it. I'm just not crediting Saban with improving the talent level at a program he hadn't coached in 3 years.

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Just for shits and giggles, look at the QBs:

02 - Randall/Mauck
03 - Mauck
04 - Randall/Freshman JR

The guys who received the majority of the playing time haven't amounted to shite and were NOT talented QBs.

Now, let's look at some other QBs who were Saban's recruits (once LSU became relevant again) that played for Les:

05 - Sophomore JR - Top Pick
06 - Jr. JR - Top Pick
07 - 5th year Senior Flynn - 2nd on Packers roster

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Okay, why don't we complete the list: Rick Clausen, Lester Ricard.

So, we have a bunch of QBs recruited by Saban, and -- according to you -- the ones who played under Saban never "amounted to shite", and the ones who played under Miles thrived and excelled. And in your mind this is an indictment of Miles' coaching. Simply amazing.

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Could you imagine what LSU would've done with an older Jamarcus and a stable Matt Flynn in 02/03/04?

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I don't know, maybe run them off to Tulane or Tennessee, or swapped them out ineffectively to maximize the awkwardness of them all, so that none of them are able to excel? Or maybe just keep them in a game with a 29 point lead to break their foot and end their season?

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I bolded this because King Joey truly believes Les is a better coach than Nick.

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As opposed to your absolute conviction that Saban was increasing the talent level at LSU 3 years after he had left?

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not just general, "omg he won the title!"

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"not just general, omg, he was the most successful coach in his first 3 years of any in SEC history ..... omg he won a national championship ... omg his recruiting classes are consistently top 5 and this year likely #1...."