re: Griffin Herring still dealing

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Roger Clemens says velocity is totally over rated what a pitcher needs is control (location).

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He didn't take steroids to control the ball better. That is for sure.

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what does this mean? I thought I knew baseball but I havent heard this phrase before. Why wouldnt it be called today? Real question not being sarcastic.

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because umpires are way way better than back then

back then many times they were calling 3 balls off the plate a strike, would never be called a strike today

LINK

atlanta and specifically glavine and maddox were known for getting these and it was known as the atlanta braves strike zone of the 90s. even joe west has talked about this(find on youtube and tictok) and much of it was because the way lopez the catcher set up. it would allow them to get 2 even 3 balls outside called a strike

and the strikezone was not very uniform in the 90s and earlier. Pedro was another one that got line to line calls

line to line refers to the batters box. hell maddux and pedro were getting some calls in other batters box on other side of the line.

would never happen today

And gymnast

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Should have paid that man.

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We’d have had to pay him a ton and guarantee him a weekend starters’ role. Still not sure he would have come back, as it didn’t look like he and Yeskie were on the same page at the end there.

But add him to this year’s current team, and we’re probably the favorites to win in Omaha. But we wouldn’t have this year’s current roster, because we wouldn’t have been able to add all the guys we did out of the portal/retain Jones/get Schmidt on campus/etc…

But just as a thought exercise, I’m not sure he wouldn’t have found himself back in the bullpen again due to our lack of reliable shut down LH arms that can extend and get you 3 or 12 outs, depending, that Jay loves to rely on. (He’d rather have a RHP and a LHP in the Cowen and Evans roles than 2 RHP). And I know it sounds silly since he’s dominating in pro ball (low level with wooden bats, though), but I’m not sure how his velocity would play the 3rd time through a good SEC lineup.

I don’t know. We’d definitely be a lot better, but I’m not sure Herring would have been much more happy with his role by the end of the season. Though I’m sure he’d have thrown several more innings, been more dominant, and drafted higher. Or would he have been?

He’d have been a year older and still not unlocked the velocity MLB teams are looking for from their starters. He’d have been closer to his ceiling than he was last year. Velocity wise, at least. And it absolutely matters. Cutters, changeups, sliders all play better coming off 95 mph fastballs than 90 mph ones.

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Regardless, it would have been fascinating to see how Jay and Yeskie filled out the staff/pen roles, and I would have absolutely loved it. Herring was/is a fricking dog who competed his fricking arse off as soon as he stepped on campus as a freshman and got some big outs for a NC team with one of the best rosters in college baseball history.

I just loved watching him compete. Hope he’s able to unlock a few more ticks up on his velocity. If he’s able to sit 92/93 for 6-7 innings, he could have a 10+ year career as a big league starter. If he can sit there for just 2-3 innings, he could still have a 10+ year career as middle relief/bridge guy. Or a high leverage stopper that comes in a close game with guys on base to get a couple of LHHs out. (I’m a Braves fan, so Dylan Lee is a guy that immediately comes to mind). Nothing to be ashamed of, those guys are super valuable, just not quite as valuable as starters. But if he’s maxed out velo-wise, gonna be a much harder road to make it. But I wouldn’t bet against him.

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would have loved to have him back for sure.

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He figured out how to get accurate movement in the 88-90 range and stayed there intentionally.

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You’re trying to insult the other dude, and even you are wrong here.

1) When Maddux was one of the best pitchers who ever lived, he was sitting 91/92/93. And he would save 94/95 to bust a LHH in that looked like it was going to hit him after seeing nothing but 91/92 and changeups low and away before getting a late arm side run back over the black (or line as 777 pointed out ) that they almost literally could not swing at.

Like even though they knew he had that pitch in his arsenal, may have even seen it several times in their careers before, their brains would not allow them to even begin the swing process. Go watch some highlights, he’s getting backwards Ks on the inside black and the hitters are just sticking their asses out and hands up to avoid getting hit.

2) I know 777 can speak to this more scientifically, but physics shows that you get more run on 2-seamers/cutters the harder you throw. (There’s probably a limit where that’s not true just based on distance, but it’s closer to 100 if there is such a threshold. It’s certainly not 92/93. That will always move more than 88/89. Some guys may not be able to control it the harder they throw, but Greg Maddux sure as shite wasn’t one of those guys. ).

3) I’m sure there’s data out there that shows average fastball velo over a season, and I’d guarantee you that there is a correlation between Maddux’s gradual decline over the years and his effectiveness using whatever you’re preferred metric is (BA against, expected BA against, ERA, FIP, whatever). Give me a season where his average fastball was 89, and I’ll give you a season where he’s worse in probably all those categories when his average fastball was 92.

4) His changeup was disgusting when he threw it off 92/93. It wasn’t nearly as effective off 88/89.

5) there’s just no way on earth that Greg Maddux—or anybody—intentionally sat 4 mph less than he could. And by “could” I’m including being able to sustain it over 100+ pitches and being able to control it. So he may have pulled back off of 96/97 to 93/94 in his early 20s because he couldn’t control or maintain that, but zero chance he was pulling back off 93/94 to 88/89 on purpose.

6) I’m realizing this post probably has me coming off as a dick towards you, but that wasn’t my intent, and that’s my bad. I just used your post to jump off of to respond to the posters you were jumping off of. You’re mostly right.

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You’re trying to insult the other dude, and even you are wrong here.

1) When Maddux was one of the best pitchers who ever lived, he was sitting 91/92/93. And he would save 94/95 to bust a LHH in that looked like it was going to hit him after seeing nothing but 91/92 and changeups low and away before getting a late arm side run back over the black (or line as 777 pointed out ) that they almost literally could not swing at.

Like even though they knew he had that pitch in his arsenal, may have even seen it several times in their careers before, their brains would not allow them to even begin the swing process. Go watch some highlights, he’s getting backwards Ks on the inside black and the hitters are just sticking their asses out and hands up to avoid getting hit.

2) I know 777 can speak to this more scientifically, but physics shows that you get more run on 2-seamers/cutters the harder you throw. (There’s probably a limit where that’s not true just based on distance, but it’s closer to 100 if there is such a threshold. It’s certainly not 92/93. That will always move more than 88/89. Some guys may not be able to control it the harder they throw, but Greg Maddux sure as shite wasn’t one of those guys. ).

3) I’m sure there’s data out there that shows average fastball velo over a season, and I’d guarantee you that there is a correlation between Maddux’s gradual decline over the years and his effectiveness using whatever you’re preferred metric is (BA against, expected BA against, ERA, FIP, whatever). Give me a season where his average fastball was 89, and I’ll give you a season where he’s worse in probably all those categories when his average fastball was 92.

4) His changeup was disgusting when he threw it off 92/93. It wasn’t nearly as effective off 88/89.

5) there’s just no way on earth that Greg Maddux—or anybody—intentionally sat 4 mph less than he could. And by “could” I’m including being able to sustain it over 100+ pitches and being able to control it. So he may have pulled back off of 96/97 to 93/94 in his early 20s because he couldn’t control or maintain that, but zero chance he was pulling back off 93/94 to 88/89 on purpose.

6) I’m realizing this post probably has me coming off as a dick towards you, but that wasn’t my intent, and that’s my bad. I just used your post to jump off of to respond to the posters you were jumping off of. You’re mostly right.

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who cares if you come off a dick, you are right

for maddux he just realized he could control the ball much much more in the 92-94 range for the most part. he would only run it up to 94-95 rarely.

the think that made maddux so good was he was smarter than everyone else and understood that batters remembered certain things and were watching film, trying to steal signals and trying to find tendancies

he studied himself along with the hitters and would change it up

he called his own pitches and if they were up big would give up a HR on purpose so he could strike the guy out later in the season when it might be a meaningful at bat

famously he did that with bagwell late in regular season...come playoffs bags was looking for same pitch and maddux knew it and played off of it and told Lopez...remember 3 months ago, i told you he would be looking for that pitch come playoffs and i got his arse.

legit only 1 Greg Maddux because his skills were not normal despite what people make it seem like.

and greg has even said...he would get lit the frick up now a days if he pitched the same.

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you sound stupid, dont post anymore

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It's Maddux.

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It's Maddux.

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oh you got me.