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re: For everyone blaming CPM for pulling Bouman Sunday, please read this
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:20 am to RB10
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:20 am to RB10
quote:
CPM over analyzed the situation and made a bad decision because of it. Rather than riding the hot hand and having someone in the pen ready to go in at the first sign of trouble he panicked a bit. Micromanaging is necessary in today's game but if you overdue it you will cost yourself a W more often than not.
Spot on.
0
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:22 am to monsterballads
quote:
agreed, or at least until he made ONE mistake...
Ive never heard of pulling a pitcher throwing that well because they might start hitting him hard.
fricking dumb. a 6 inning sample size and only 62 pitches usually means you are in control. He's more likely to throw a complete game shutout than he is to start getting rocked. Coaches DREAM of having a starter at 62 pitches thru 6 innings.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:22 am to monsterballads
quote:
but 6 innings of shut out, 62 pitch 2 hit ball
And that's why I am saying he didn't base it on stats at all. He didn't care about any of those numbers. He didn't want that lineup to see him again. It was the pitch count. It was the 2 hit shutout. It was the number of times through the lineup.
Look, I know you're going to be pissed. It sucks balls that we lost when we had that cushion. At least be pissed off at the decision to bring in McCune for the 8th though and not the other. We will never know if the other was the right decision or not. How pissed would you be if the first pitch of the inning was a grounder to second that was booted and then Bouman gave up a 2 run jack? Because if you wanted Bouman to come out for the 7th inning, you wouldn't have taken him out due to an error on the first pitch of the inning, so you would have left him in. My point is, we will never know if that was the right decision or not.
What we do know is that it was definitely NOT the right decision to leave in McCune in the 8th inning.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:22 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
If you aren't comfortable with Bouman facing a lineup 3 times, why run him out there in the 7th inning when you have a loaded bullpen that has EVERYONE available?
Not being comfortable is why he panicked and you could tell by his reaction when McCune got into trouble. . I think he knew if he should probably have let bauman go back out there but he panicked because he wasn't comfortable.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:24 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Ive never heard of pulling a pitcher throwing that well because they might start hitting him hard.
I know you watch a fair amount of baseball. Or at least you seem to from some of your comments. I know you have seen a young pitcher in the major leagues get pulled out of a game they were doing well in because they didn't want them to go through a lineup for the third time.
quote:
He's more likely to throw a complete game shutout than he is to start getting rocked.
You don't have to get rocked to give up 1-2 runs. No one said he was going to get rocked.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:25 am to RB10
quote:
I think he knew if he should probably have let bauman go back out there but he panicked because he wasn't comfortable.
Well now you're overlapping because McCune wasn't in trouble until the 8th. That's when PM looked uncomfortable. Bouman came out after 6 innings of work.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:25 am to mylsuhat
quote:
I know its hard to see but here are Bouman's numbers for his last 3 starts:
This means "0"! He was pitching a great game...leave him in!
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:25 am to UpToPar
quote:
Is it though? That means that it was the right decision to send Cune back out in the 8th.
McCune wasn't cruising. We got a foul ball out and line drive double play. Bouman had demonstrated his control of the bats for 6 innings. big difference.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:28 am to ccomeaux
quote:
McCune wasn't cruising. We got a foul ball out and line drive double play.
lolwut? Neither of these things happened the entire time McCune was on the hill.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:28 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
Well now you're overlapping because McCune wasn't in trouble until the 8th. That's when PM looked uncomfortable. Bouman came out after 6 innings of work.
CPM looked pretty uncomfortable when McCune walked the lead off man in the 7th.
ETA: something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the long layoff McCune had between the 7th and 8th with all the delays. I've already said I didn't think McCune should have been out there in the 8th and a layoff like that usually guarantees a relief pitcher is done.
I've changed my mind a bit on this too. While I still think bauman shouldn't have been pulled the biggest mistake CPM made was sending McCune back out in the 8th.
This post was edited on 6/3/14 at 10:34 am
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:29 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
I know you have seen a young pitcher in the major leagues get pulled out of a game they were doing well in because they didn't want them to go through a lineup for the third time.
I actually can't remember seeing something like that in a situation like this. 62 pitches in 6 innings with only 2 hits? WTF. That's a coaches dream. I can't think of an instance where a coach would pull the guy. Its utterly ridiculous.
you put a righty againt Survance and he becomes a monster. You flip Vidales around and all of a sudden he smacking the ball all over. They get Pyatt in the game cause the lefty is out.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:31 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
lolwut? Neither of these things happened the entire time McCune was on the hill.
Hmmm, heavier buzz than I thought... I guess.
I could have sworn we got a foul ball on the first base line and then a line drive to Moore then the throw and tag at 2nd in the 7th inning. No ? Either way, my point is that McCune wasn't dealing it like Bouman.
This post was edited on 6/3/14 at 10:33 am
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:32 am to Lester Earl
I get that it was extreme but the number if pitches is irrelevant if they didn't want him facing them for the third time.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:34 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:You may be correct on what Paul was thinking when he pulled Bouman but that doesn't mean its not stupid.
And that's why I am saying he didn't base it on stats at all. He didn't care about any of those numbers. He didn't want that lineup to see him again. It was the pitch count. It was the 2 hit shutout. It was the number of times through the lineup.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:34 am to ccomeaux
quote:
Houston 7th - McCune to p for Bouman. Ratcliff walked (3-1). Hollis hit into double play 2b to ss (0-0); Ratcliff out on the play. Lueneburg pinch hit for Montemayor. Lueneburg grounded out to 1b unassisted (1-2). 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 0 LOB.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:35 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
I get that it was extreme but the number if pitches is irrelevant if they didn't want him facing them for the third time.
the pitches aren't irrelevant though. I could understand if he was scattering hits and pitching with runners on base. He had given up 2 hits. TWO!
I WANT that guy facing their lineup again. Not the other way around.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:45 am to Lester Earl
quote:
I actually can't remember seeing something like that in a situation like this. 62 pitches in 6 innings with only 2 hits? WTF. That's a coaches dream. I can't think of an instance where a coach would pull the guy. Its utterly ridiculous.
Completely agree. It's not innings, it's the number of pitches. And the fact he was in total control. You want to have him on a short leash? Fine. Have Fury up in the pen at the first sign of trouble.
But there was no trouble yet, and that move was just looking for it. Then he leaves McCune in during the 8th. Not just to start the inning, but after he loaded the bases. Heck, not even then, not until after he gave up a 2-RBI single.
He removes Bouman on the grounds of hypothetical trouble, but leaves McCune in during actual trouble? And waits until its at disaster levels to pull him?
Posted on 6/3/14 at 10:47 am to Lester Earl
For the umpteenth time, it goes back to a season-long lack of properly preparing a third starter to pitch deep in games. I put this on a lack of trust from the coaches, not an inability to do it from the pitchers. I will argue until I die that Bouman should have been left in the game. They didn't take him out because he can't get through the order a third time. They took him out because they don't trust him to get through the order a third time. How do you know if someone can do something if you never give them the chance? This should have been tested somewhere along the way during the season and not in a move and go on game in the regional.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 11:08 am to Baloo
quote:
He removes Bouman on the grounds of hypothetical trouble, but leaves McCune in during actual trouble? And waits until its at disaster levels to pull him?
Truly baffling. Totally wasted boumans performance.
Posted on 6/3/14 at 11:11 am to monsterballads
quote:then brings in Broussard to pitch 3 innings when we don't have the lead. He should've just put in Broussard in the 7th if he was willing to let him pitch 3 innings. Instead, he used Broussard and made him unavailable for Monday all on the hope that we might score a run.
Totally wasted boumans performance
This post was edited on 6/3/14 at 11:12 am
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