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Started By
Message
re: ESPN: Matchups, not pecking order, got LSU
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:37 pm to MoreOrLes
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:37 pm to MoreOrLes
quote:
Last year we got screwed. The BCS says on its own website that "The reward for wins in the regular season is the bowl games." Thats how "they" justify not having a playoff. We all know what our "Reward" was last year.
You're confusing how it is with how it should be.
The system now allows for all bowls besides the BCS game to pick whoever the hell they want within their contracts.
So when you see "SEC #2" in the Capital One, that doesn't mean the second best team in the SEC. That means whoever the hell the Capital One wants to invite after the BCS takes their SEC team(s).
So then, it certainly is a beauty contest.
Don't like the system? Get it changed. I certainly don't like it and want it changed.
But within the framework of the bowl system, to me this was predictable. Hell, I was predicting Chick-fil-A a month ago, assuming all six of the "big six" reached 10 wins. It happened, and LSU went where I thought they would go for exactly the reasons I thought they would.
The only wild cards for me were who represents the Big 12 in the Cotton (they would not match up Texas and Texas A&M, so LSU would have gotten the invite) and the ACC...if Clemson had gotten a BCS bid, then South Carolina MIGHT have gone to Atlanta. Now I think that was probably true, not just a maybe.
1
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:49 pm to Choupique19
quote:
Where have you been the last 30 hours??? The SEC definitely stepped in to "protect" UGA. They were plummeting to the Chick Fila Bowl, and LSU was set to go to the Cotton Bowl.
Georgia is ranked higher than us, and played in the SECCG? So is the complaint here that LSU is being disrespected because their ranking merits a better bowl than they're getting (in which case Georgia going to the chicken bowl would be even worse) or is the complaint that LSU fans think they deserve a better bowl despite having a worse ranking because LSU fans are spoiled?
Also, the Cotton was not going to take LSU with A&M on the table. An in-state team with a heisman finalist, a very loyal and large fan base, and the chance for A&M to play an old Big-12 rival are all too good to pass up.
LSU would have ended up in the Cap 1 bowl with a lower ranked Nebraska team that just got destroyed by an unranked Wisconsin. And people would be complaining about that matchup just as much.
The real problem here is that LSU fans have some stupid sense of entitlement bred in part from an idea of SEC superiority that leads them to believe that being the 4th best team in the SEC means they deserve a BCS invite or a marquee bowl, and not the same crap bowls that the 4th best teams in other conferences get stuck with.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:54 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
It might take a while for LSU fans to warm up to it, but it’s a matchup Tigers fans will eventually embrace
False
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:56 pm to nf
quote:
The real problem here is that LSU fans have some stupid sense of entitlement bred in part from an idea of SEC superiority that leads them to believe that being the 4th best team in the SEC means they deserve a BCS invite or a marquee bowl, and not the same crap bowls that the 4th best teams in other conferences get stuck with.
You do realize all the bowls in that pecking order are tied into the SEC.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 2:58 pm to nf
quote:
Georgia is ranked higher than us, and played in the SECCG? So is the complaint here that LSU is being disrespected because their ranking merits a better bowl than they're getting (in which case Georgia going to the chicken bowl would be even worse) or is the complaint that LSU fans think they deserve a better bowl despite having a worse ranking because LSU fans are spoiled?
so final ranking and conference finish matters. OK, no problem. UGa is off the hook.
quote:
Also, the Cotton was not going to take LSU with A&M on the table. An in-state team with a heisman finalist, a very loyal and large fan base, and the chance for A&M to play an old Big-12 rival are all too good to pass up.
Oh, except for when it doesn't. Like in your next paragraph. LSU is ranked higher than A&M and won head to head, and this no longer matters because.... oh, we're spoiled.
quote:
And I've quoted your section on South Carolina. Not even you can come up with a justification for that one. Another team we are ranked ahead of AND beat. So that's two teams ranked behind LSU that also lost to LSU on the field going to January 1 bowls ahead of LSU... yet somehow we're "spoiled" to demand the bowl we earned?
Yeah. Blow it out your arse. This isn't entitlement, this is demanding what we earned. Not to get passed up by two bowls by teams who had inferior seasons and lost to us on the field of play.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:05 pm to nf
LSU would have gone to the Cotton if Texas was the opponent. That's well-established. Powers-that-be did not want a Texas-TAMU Cotton Bowl.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:07 pm to spslayto
quote:
we were a one-loss team going into the SEC title game and lost to Georgia. SEC didn't pressure any other bowl to take LSU that year and we drop to the Peach.
Not only did the SEC not go to bat for us, but Miles and Bertman had to make a trip to visit Cotton Bowl officials to lobby to get us in the game late that week. It didn't work, and was probably a dumb move, but it just shows another example of the SEC bias against LSU.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:09 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
It might take a while for LSU fans to warm up to it, but it’s a matchup Tigers fans will eventually embrace.
Yeah.....no
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:11 pm to Baloo
quote:
Yeah. Blow it out your arse. This isn't entitlement, this is demanding what we earned. Not to get passed up by two bowls by teams who had inferior seasons and lost to us on the field of play.
The process has very little to do with that. And it's a process LSU and the SEC has signed up for.
So there can be no real complaints that aren't answered with a "Well, change the process then."
Georgia had made itself more attractive to the Capital One Bowl with its SEC CG performance. Without Texas in the Cotton Bowl, Manziel and A&M was a no-brainer. The SEC simply wasn't going to put the Chick-fil-A in position to have a Clemson-SC rematch.
So LSU to Atlanta made sense. I don't like the process that got it there, but given the process being what it is, LSU didn't get "screwed."
Like an oversigned prospect, they got "processed."
Now, having said all that, I'll add two things:
1. From a neutral perspective, LSU-Clemson is one of the better bowl matchups out there, so that's a mitigating factor and ...
2. I don't like the system either. Get a playoff.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:15 pm to Jet12
Embrace the Chick-fil-A bowl? No.
Embrace a game against a 10-2 Clemson team that's better than the teams they would have faced if they had gone to the Capital One, the Outback or, realistically, the Cotton (given that they would have only gone to the Cotton if Texas had gotten in)?
Yup.
Heck, I'm looking forward to this one. Sucks that it's in the No. 6 bowl for the SEC, but Clemson's a team that if you beat them, it's a feather in your hat and the SEC's hat. It's not like it's NC State or Georgia Tech.
Embrace a game against a 10-2 Clemson team that's better than the teams they would have faced if they had gone to the Capital One, the Outback or, realistically, the Cotton (given that they would have only gone to the Cotton if Texas had gotten in)?
Yup.
Heck, I'm looking forward to this one. Sucks that it's in the No. 6 bowl for the SEC, but Clemson's a team that if you beat them, it's a feather in your hat and the SEC's hat. It's not like it's NC State or Georgia Tech.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:27 pm to spslayto
quote:
You do realize all the bowls in that pecking order are tied into the SEC.
Of course. I also realize that those bowls are generally free to take whichever teams they want, regardless of ranking, and they picked programs that were more appealing to them, irrespective of the BCS rankings.
We could have ensured better bowl placement by winning more games. We didn't so we're stuck with the vagaries of the system. This happens to a lot of teams every year.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:34 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
The SEC simply wasn't going to put the Chick-fil-A in position to have a Clemson-SC rematch.
Well send someone else to the Peach bowl so Clemson/USC don't have to play again. Moreover, we had a rematch in our "bowl" last year.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:34 pm to Baloo
quote:
Oh, except for when it doesn't. Like in your next paragraph. LSU is ranked higher than A&M and won head to head, and this no longer matters because.... oh, we're spoiled.
I said it was arguable. As in, I was prepared to argue it. I'm fine if you want to argue the opposite. My personal opinion is that we probably wouldn't beat A&M if we played them now, based on how the team has looked at the end of the year.
But more important, once you get outside of the BCS bowls there are no guarantees that rankings buy you anything. Maybe we are a bit better than SC and A&M, but that doesn't mean we are more attractive for those bowls. SC already beat Clemson, just a week ago. A&M is a huge draw for the Cotton bowl against Oklahoma, and a more exciting team right now. Georgia won their division and just played a great game against Bama.
Meanwhile, LSU has two losses, looked like crap at the end of the season, and is less attractive to specific bowls for specific reasons.
You people are arguing that the SEC should ensure that we get the bowl we want because you feel that we deserve it, regardless of what actually makes sense for the bowls. Beat Florida and we're in the top 4 and going to the Sugar. Beat Bama and we're likely going to the NCG, or at least the Cap 1. Lose to both, and take your chances in the bowl game lottery, where a ton of teams have an argument for what they "deserve".
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:41 pm to spslayto
Frankly, I'd rather play Clemson in the Georgia Dome.
You expecting the Chick-fil-A Bowl to take NC State? I mean, you've got two decent teams in the ACC in FSU and Clemson and you really think they would pass on one of them just so they can have ... South Carolina?
C'mon now.
Bowls doing what they do, which is try to get a matchup they can make a buck off of. Christmas is just coming six days late for the Chick-fil-A.
You expecting the Chick-fil-A Bowl to take NC State? I mean, you've got two decent teams in the ACC in FSU and Clemson and you really think they would pass on one of them just so they can have ... South Carolina?
C'mon now.
Bowls doing what they do, which is try to get a matchup they can make a buck off of. Christmas is just coming six days late for the Chick-fil-A.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:43 pm to nf
quote:
You people are arguing that the SEC should ensure that we get the bowl we want because you feel that we deserve it, regardless of what actually makes sense for the bowls. Beat Florida and we're in the top 4 and going to the Sugar. Beat Bama and we're likely going to the NCG, or at least the Cap 1. Lose to both, and take your chances in the bowl game lottery, where a ton of teams have an argument for what they "deserve".
Or be like other teams from the West and not play anyone worth a crap from the other division and you would only have one loss. But I digress.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:46 pm to nf
quote:
My personal opinion is that we probably wouldn't beat A&M if we played them now, based on how the team has looked at the end of the year.
Given that the tough games were over after Alabama, how LSU finished the season did not surprise me. If Arkansas were 10-1 instead of 4-7, or if that was A&M waiting on Thanksgiving weekend, I suspect LSU would have been much sharper down the stretch, particularly on defense.
Other than that, I agree. It's the system everybody signed up for.
Watch in a couple of years, LSU will finish second in the west will be picked for the Sugar over the SEC East champion and everybody will be complaining about how LSU has a "built-in bowl advantage."
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:46 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
You expecting the Chick-fil-A Bowl to take NC State? I mean, you've got two decent teams in the ACC in FSU and Clemson and you really think they would pass on one of them just so they can have ... South Carolina?
Well take Clemson. But the Peach doesn't pick before the two Florida bowls, so we get Michigan/South Carolina. Nationally, wouldn't LSU/Michigan be more appealing?
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:50 pm to nf
quote:
My personal opinion is that we probably wouldn't beat A&M if we played them now, based on how the team has looked at the end of the year.
Then you can justify anything. The eyeball test can justify literally anything. It's a post hoc rationalization.
There are 4 teams essentially tied who look to be of roughly equal quality. Their records against one another are:
Team A 2-0
Team B 1-1
Team C 0-1
Team D 0-1 (lost to Team B by 40 points)
Your argument is that Team A has no right to complain when they get sent to the worst bowl of the four. And worse yet, are exhibiting "entitlement" to do so. That's absurd.
Sure, you're not guarranteed of anything outside the BCS. But isn't it odd that LSU always gets the short end? Not only did we miss the Sugar in 2010, we were leapfrogged by a Bama team that finished behind us? Or dropping to the Peach in 2005. Or getting leapfrogged by a USC team we beat in 2008. Or have to play a team we finished ahead of and beat on the road again in our bowl game in 2011.
This is not a one-year phenomenon.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:55 pm to spslayto
quote:
Nationally, wouldn't LSU/Michigan be more appealing?
That is a really good point.
I'm just saying I understand why the league and Chick-fil-A would politic for the way it ended. It made sense and was predictable. Especially considering the Outback's tendency to take Eastern teams.
And, honestly, from a team perspective, the CFA is a better-run, more fun game than either Florida Bowl which, frankly, are both sort of bush league with the way they are run.
How the Capital One is the SEC's No. 2 game behind the Sugar is beyond me.
To me, in terms of quality of event, it's:
1. Sugar
1a. Cotton
3. Chick-fil-A
4. The three games in Florida, all pretty interchangeable to me.
Posted on 12/3/12 at 3:55 pm to Baloo
Plus the chicken sammich bowl appearance has to be a huge help in recruting
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