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H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47855 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

Now we just have bull shite arguments about "quality losses" and it's 13 people who decide the polls rather than a few dozen journalists. I think this get said a lot, the BCS formula but just with a 4 team playoff would've been much better. I'm not a fan of the committee


Quality of loss only became a thing in 2011 and frankly I think the committee is way better than the coaches poll and that other stupid poll. The committee is way more flexible and does not do a poll til mid season so they aren’t beholden to their initial rankings the way the pollsters usually are. I wouldn’t mind adding a formula component but if you look at the 4 playoffs would any have been different?


atltiger6487
Member since May 2011
7489 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

Computers are impartial. A selection committee can be biased.
computers only spit out what humans program them to.

If a human thinks margin or victory is important, they'll program that in. If not, it's out. Same goes for a host of other variables, and how much weight, if any, to give them.

And I think it's silly to denigrate the selection committee. They can take all the data and discuss at length. Much like the March Madness committee, who most people believe does a great job.

I'd take a committee of serious people, that review all the data for weeks, to a formula spit out by a computer.




Lou the Jew from LSU
LSU Fan
Meridian MS
Member since Oct 2006
1637 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
It killed it. And continuing to find ways to let Alabama in despite not winning their division will kill the current format. The season is more and more meaningless leading to less interest.
Mark my words.....
And get off of my lawn!!


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122
H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47855 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

I'd take a committee of serious people, that review all the data for weeks, to a formula spit out by a computer.


It boggles my mind that people really think a “computer” formula is some objective truism. I wouldn’t mind if they had it as some part of the process as long as it’s transparent.


cbree88
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Feb 2010
1652 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
Yes. That was the final nail in the coffin. They announced the formation of a playoff about a month later.


Tiger Voodoo
New Orleans Saints Fan
Champions 2003, 2007, 2009, 201fack
Member since Mar 2007
13265 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

And I think it's silly to denigrate the selection committee. They can take all the data and discuss at length. Much like the March Madness committee, who most people believe does a great job.

I'd take a committee of serious people, that review all the data for weeks, to a formula spit out by a computer.




That’s why the BCS rankings combined both.

It combined two human polls with six computers using very unique and complex algorithms to balance out the bias of the human element with the objectivity of the computers.

And the polls were given more weight.


Margin of victory was a factor in some of the computers, but objective strength of schedule was virtually always the most important factor in the formulas, with many using opponents winning percentage and opponents opponents winning percentage to truly try to figure out who did the best against the best competition.
This post was edited on 7/11 at 3:50 pm


atltiger6487
Member since May 2011
7489 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

Quality of loss only became a thing in 2011 and frankly I think the committee is way better than the coaches poll and that other stupid poll. The committee is way more flexible and does not do a poll til mid season so they aren’t beholden to their initial rankings the way the pollsters usually are. I wouldn’t mind adding a formula component but if you look at the 4 playoffs would any have been different?
agreed. The committee takes their job seriously. THe polls have been a joke for decades.

And by the way, there IS such a thing as a quality loss.

For example, if LSU loses to Bama on the road by 3, and Bama finishes undefeated and ranked no. 1, well that's absolutely a quality loss.

A loss to Troy at home and a 30-pointer to Miss State AREN'T quality losses.

It's not just wins and losses, it's how you play that shows how good or bad you are. A 1-point win over La Tech isn't the same as a 40 point blowout. It just isn't.

By the same token, if LSU wins by 1 point over several cupcakes, then those aren't quality wins. Yes, they're wins, but too many close wins over bad teams indicates that we're not that good.

Got to look at everything, not just the W-L record.
This post was edited on 7/11 at 3:47 pm


cbree88
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Feb 2010
1652 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
The committee will always have human bias and error present. There is no way to get rid of it. That’s why I wish they could come up with some objective criteria for selecting the teams.

The CFB is NOT a true playoff. It is an invitational, in the words of Danny Kanell.


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41
klrstix
LSU Fan
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
1484 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

LSU had escaped Tuscaloosa with a 9–6 overtime victory...


"Escaped"...


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52
H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47855 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

Got to look at everything, not just the W-L record


Yes, but imo many ONLY looked at quality of loss in 2011. Of course losing to the #1 team by 3 in OT is a “better” loss than losing to a 7-5 team that was a 28 pt underdog. But in the end both are loses. And should QOL trump all other factors? Like 1 loss was at home vs the road on a short week, winning your conference, playing more higher ranked teams etc.

I would prefer an objective standard like winning your conference to be the qualifier with just 4 teams. If they took just the top 4 conference winners (no auto bid for a specific conference) it would be objective


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nvasil1
LSU Fan
Loyola Chicago Fan
Member since Oct 2009
7468 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

Margin of victory was a factor in some of the computers, but objective strength of schedule was virtually always the most important factor in the formulas, with many using opponents winning percentage and opponents opponents winning percentage to truly try to figure out who did the best against the best competition.

The strength of schedule variable was actually diminished in the formulas after USC bitched to the heavens about being left out in 2003. Margin of victory was also phased out.

And that was my biggest problem with the BCS. They tried to retroactively tinker with it every time it created a controversy just to placate everybody. All they had to do was mandate a qualifier that only conference champions were eligible for the championship game and it would've cleared up a lot of issues.

I'm sure the committee tries their best, but it's nothing more than another, glorified human poll. While more sports are moving towards more advanced analytics in evaluating players and teams, college football's current system basically bought an old car and put a new shiny body on it.


atltiger6487
Member since May 2011
7489 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

I would prefer an objective standard like winning your conference to be the qualifier with just 4 teams. If they took just the top 4 conference winners (no auto bid for a specific conference) it would be objective

now I agree with an objective system would be best, but that's impossible with 130 teams in 10 conferences, plus a few independents.

So I'd like the playoff expanded to 8 teams. Power 5 champs get auto bids, plus 3 at large. That way, the committee is only deciding 3 bids to non-conference winners and we use objective criteria (conference champs) for 5 of the 8 bids.


H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47855 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

The strength of schedule variable was actually diminished in the formulas after USC bitched to the heavens about being left out in 2003


It was basically being double or arguably triple counted though. The BCS formula had a separate SOS formula and all the computers factored it and yes so do the humans. Or Hawaii would have been #1 in 2007.

I understand the desire for some truly objective formula but its not a race where 1 person crosses the finish line first. Who the best team is was and always will be 100% subjective. There is no magic formula. The best you can do is include multiple teams and have them play. I think 4 is a good # rarely are there more than 4 with a legitimate argument. For all the griping about the committee what difference do you think some magic formula would have produced?


H-Town Tiger
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Nov 2003
47855 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

So I'd like the playoff expanded to 8 teams. Power 5 champs get auto bids, plus 3 at large. That way, the committee is only deciding 3 bids to non-conference winners and we use objective criteria (conference champs) for 5 of the 8 bids.


I still don’t see why you object so much to the committee? What did they get so horribly wrong? I personally would quibble with Bama last year and Ohio St in 2016 but both would easily be in an 8 teamer. I also don’t like auto bids for certain conferences plus with that scenario assuming we’d still have CCGs you could easily have situations where a team would better off not playing in the CCG.


OKTGR580
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Apr 2018
1300 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
No. It just killed the LSU dominance of the 2000s


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Bucks2TigerFan
Member since Jun 2018
47 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
The LSU-Alabama rematch helped put a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths that helped bring about the 4 team playoff, at least for a lot of folks outside the SEC.

And last year's UGA-Bama game may bring about an expanded 6 or 8 team playoff.

Plus, while it made sense at the time, the seeding was off with Clemson at #1, as they were shown to be the weakest of the 4 teams there.


Tiger Voodoo
New Orleans Saints Fan
Champions 2003, 2007, 2009, 201fack
Member since Mar 2007
13265 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

For all the griping about the committee what difference do you think some magic formula would have produced?



I’m not griping about anything that has happened. Yet. (Although I would add that the seeding has been blatantly in Alabama’s favor the past four years)

But for the fifteen years of the BCS there were only three or four real controversies as well. Hell, even before the BCS a split title was a rarity. Most years are pretty cut and dry.


But when there is a controversy, and one will inevitably pop up, my guess would be that a formula similar to the BCS would have come up with the right answer where the committee gets it wrong.
This post was edited on 7/11 at 4:56 pm


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OKTGR580
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Apr 2018
1300 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
I love having an all SEC natty. I wish it was like that every year


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BigSquirrel
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jul 2013
1446 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
OK St and Alabama should have played, then the winner should have lost to LSU after LSU had the Alabama-length bye.


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Dave England
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2013
3182 posts

re: Did the LSU-Alabama Rematch Really Kill the BCS?
quote:

If they had simply kept the BCS ranking system and expanded to four teams it would have perfect.


Been saying this since 2013.


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