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Message
re: Correcting some important information in the Will Wade situation
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:21 pm to Rouge
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:21 pm to Rouge
quote:legal, structured monopoly that operates under a collective bargaining agreement that lays down bylaws that member orgainaztions agree to abide by.
NCAA has their own laws
bylaws that pertain to their member institutions, correct?
The collective bargaining agreement is why all rules (new, removed, amended) are voted on in some shape form or fashion (committees, working groups, conferences, members). Enforcement of those bylaws is done by the parent organization as granted in those bylaws that everyone agreed to.
0
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:25 pm to Lester Earl
I don’t make assumptions like you do.
Maybe they do, but I would be very surprised if the NCAA can say “hey, that meeting you have at 10:30, we must attend.” How would they even know when the meeting is taking place? I’m open to seeing that the NCAA can dictate this, until then I will not make assumptions.
And LOL that you started a thread to pit LSU against The Rant.
Maybe they do, but I would be very surprised if the NCAA can say “hey, that meeting you have at 10:30, we must attend.” How would they even know when the meeting is taking place? I’m open to seeing that the NCAA can dictate this, until then I will not make assumptions.
And LOL that you started a thread to pit LSU against The Rant.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:25 pm to The Blue Stuff
I think part of the issue here is people don’t really understand what the difference penalty wise for LSU is for suspending him now vs after the season.
There is a major distinction from the NCAA standpoint for acting when allegations are made vs continuing on as status quo until the NCAA investigates. The longer they waited the greater the impact would be under the NCAAs penalty matrix.
The infraction penalty matrix has been radically changed since PSU, UNC and Cam Newton. There are much more stringent rules in place now for this type of thing and are tied directly back to LOIC for the school plus show cause for all coaches involved plus a variety of additional penalties as well.
This matrix has escalators that increase when multiple teir 1 violations happen and additional escalators for additional extenuating circumstances.
Once this allegation came to light there is no longer any deniability from the university standpoint unless WW stated to LSU that these allegations are misconstrued or better totally false. If not, LSU now shows that they knew and did nothing,textbook escalator for LOIC, which is dramatically worse penaltywise than current scenario.
In the NCAA’s eyes it’s you knew about this and yet let him coach “just” to win a conference title and/or a conference title? That is caring more about winning at all costs than following the rules. Do you really think that will go over well?
Let’s not forget that this isn’t the first time for WW. He already was instructed to tell LSU about all potential misdeeds last time and has since then signed off on a variety of compliance forms stating he has no knowledge of any on going or past NCAA potential violations committed by the program. So he has already had to “come clean” in the eyes of LSU and the NCAA and now this comes up. So once WW said no, they had no choice. I don’t have to like it to accept the fact that the release of this put both WW and LSU in a box and WW has essentially no good choices.
If you want to be mad at someone, go rage on who leaked this. They absolutely knew what they were doing and the potential ramifications. Once it came out, all the other players were just forced to play along with the script.
There is a major distinction from the NCAA standpoint for acting when allegations are made vs continuing on as status quo until the NCAA investigates. The longer they waited the greater the impact would be under the NCAAs penalty matrix.
The infraction penalty matrix has been radically changed since PSU, UNC and Cam Newton. There are much more stringent rules in place now for this type of thing and are tied directly back to LOIC for the school plus show cause for all coaches involved plus a variety of additional penalties as well.
This matrix has escalators that increase when multiple teir 1 violations happen and additional escalators for additional extenuating circumstances.
Once this allegation came to light there is no longer any deniability from the university standpoint unless WW stated to LSU that these allegations are misconstrued or better totally false. If not, LSU now shows that they knew and did nothing,textbook escalator for LOIC, which is dramatically worse penaltywise than current scenario.
In the NCAA’s eyes it’s you knew about this and yet let him coach “just” to win a conference title and/or a conference title? That is caring more about winning at all costs than following the rules. Do you really think that will go over well?
Let’s not forget that this isn’t the first time for WW. He already was instructed to tell LSU about all potential misdeeds last time and has since then signed off on a variety of compliance forms stating he has no knowledge of any on going or past NCAA potential violations committed by the program. So he has already had to “come clean” in the eyes of LSU and the NCAA and now this comes up. So once WW said no, they had no choice. I don’t have to like it to accept the fact that the release of this put both WW and LSU in a box and WW has essentially no good choices.
If you want to be mad at someone, go rage on who leaked this. They absolutely knew what they were doing and the potential ramifications. Once it came out, all the other players were just forced to play along with the script.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:27 pm to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
would be stupid of LSU to allow the NCAA into a meeting with anyone before they could meet with that person themselves.
That would just imply more guilt and then they are 100% coming after you full tilt
quote:
NCAA can ask all they want but they do not supersede the legal authority of the Federal Court system of the U.S.A.
Will Wade involvement in this federal trial is his own problem & no one else’s. Not LSU & especially not the NCAA. Nothing legally prevents him from talking to anyone.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:29 pm to laxtonto
quote:Then what about the first wiretap transcript that was made public due to a courtroom reading into record in Oct 2018?
I think part of the issue here is people don’t really understand what the difference penalty wise for LSU is for suspending him now vs after the season.
There is a major distinction from the NCAA standpoint for acting when allegations are made vs continuing on as status quo until the NCAA investigates. The longer they waited the greater the impact would be under the NCAAs penalty matrix.
THIS wiretap was not read aloud and is, at least for now, something reported by Yahoo presumably from a leak from the defense after the tape was ruled inadmissible by the court.
Hence what Smart was reinstated. Everything concerning him is a result of a leak via online media.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:30 pm to laxtonto
quote:
If you want to be mad at someone, go rage on who leaked this. They absolutely knew what they were doing and the potential ramifications. Once it came out, all the other players were just forced to play along with the script.
If this is the case alleva and Alexander must go
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:30 pm to deathvalleytiger10
quote:
don’t make assumptions like you do.
You’ve been trying and failing for 3 days now to 1 up me, only to get mad because you can’t 1up facts.
Read your posts, all the what if’s & maybes. You are the only one assuming things my friend.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:40 pm to I20goon
There is a major distinction between a coach and a player in the NCAAs eyes.
Player says I didn’t do it and no one can prove otherwise, so be it. WW is an employee and held to a higher standard. Smart has a much smaller penalty in terms of impact as well if proven otherwise.
WW has to once again reaffirm he didn’t commit additional violations. So if this did happen and now lied again in his NCAA paperwork his show order gets that much longer. Him not meeting is a pretty heavy indication that he knows he is done here and is trying to limit the length of his show cause.
WW is trapped because of the trial. The NCAA is normally pretty toothless with the lack of subpoena power, but the FBI solved that. It’s hard to deny and say prove it to the NCAA when the FBI potentially already has the proof.
The defense did this to push the trial more into the media and WW was their sacrificial lamb. They knew how it would play out and it makes me curious about what cones out during the first round.
Player says I didn’t do it and no one can prove otherwise, so be it. WW is an employee and held to a higher standard. Smart has a much smaller penalty in terms of impact as well if proven otherwise.
WW has to once again reaffirm he didn’t commit additional violations. So if this did happen and now lied again in his NCAA paperwork his show order gets that much longer. Him not meeting is a pretty heavy indication that he knows he is done here and is trying to limit the length of his show cause.
WW is trapped because of the trial. The NCAA is normally pretty toothless with the lack of subpoena power, but the FBI solved that. It’s hard to deny and say prove it to the NCAA when the FBI potentially already has the proof.
The defense did this to push the trial more into the media and WW was their sacrificial lamb. They knew how it would play out and it makes me curious about what cones out during the first round.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:51 pm to laxtonto
quote:definitely, no argument there. The penalties and duties for coach/admin are on another level than for a player. The NCAA operates under the presumption that the recruit/player was only a recipient, not the originator of the the violation. Personally, I think that's why it has gotten as bad as it has; but that's another discussion altogether.
Player says I didn’t do it and no one can prove otherwise, so be it. WW is an employee and held to a higher standard. Smart has a much smaller penalty in terms of impact as well if proven otherwise.
quote:Herein lies my point. The wiretap from first trial is public record and NCAA filed papers to get that transcript as part of their investigation.
WW is trapped because of the trial. The NCAA is normally pretty toothless with the lack of subpoena power, but the FBI solved that. It’s hard to deny and say prove it to the NCAA when the FBI potentially already has the proof.
The one involving Smart was not entered into public record, nor read aloud, and was suppressed. The NCAA will likely never get their hands on it. Hence we should do just like the court did and pretend it doesn't exist. Call it fake news by Yahoo, or say nothing, or deny it; don't care which. It will remain suppressed. We, the school and Wade, if they had worked together had this advantage. Our admin gave it away without getting anything for it.
AT A MINIMUM, 3 seconds after that tape was supressed in that courtroom we should've contacted Wade and his counsel, formulated a plan for talking to the NCAA and then told the NCAA "hey, that tape was suppressed, but if you grant us X and Y, we'll discuss it to the best of Coach Wade's recollection."
We flushed that crack, that window, that advantage, right down the drain for what-
OPTICS
For the record: I believe there are plenty of violations. I'm not pretending Wade is innocent. I think he's guilty as frick. But I want us to get away with it. Not hang ourselves.
This post was edited on 3/17/19 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:55 pm to Lester Earl
The Rant loves downvoting indelible facts that don’t fit their fantasies.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 7:58 pm to dsides
quote:
If this is the case alleva and Alexander must go
The do and everyone seems to know it but them.
It's not a matter of if they'll be replaced, the question is when.
Neither will be at LSU a year from now.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:02 pm to I20goon
quote:
Correcting some important information in the Will Wade situation
quote:
Topic regarding NCAA investigation with recent comments.
I still don't think there's an official NCAA investigation and Ross Dellenger isn't credible to me.
Yes, there is an NCAA investigation:
I should have been more specific. I meant into LSU, but with all the foolishness from BozoJoe, there will be.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:03 pm to I20goon
quote:
We, the school and Wade, if they had worked together had this advantage.
This is why what our administration did is so maddening.
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:05 pm to I20goon
Lots of assumptions here. Assume it doesn’t get read into evidence, assume the FBI doesn’t play ball with the NCAA later, assuming the defense doesn’t have other evidence tied to WW that they enter in defense that this is wide spread in the sport. What keeps some governmental subcommittee from calling WW to testify regarding the issue in college basketball?
I couldn’t recommend going down that path because of the uncertainty has disastrous implications for WW and the university. If it ever does comes out in an arena that the NCAA can use, everyone is done in the AD as well as WW. Even a 5% chance is not worth it long term
I couldn’t recommend going down that path because of the uncertainty has disastrous implications for WW and the university. If it ever does comes out in an arena that the NCAA can use, everyone is done in the AD as well as WW. Even a 5% chance is not worth it long term
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:05 pm to laxtonto
Can we please get this shity fricking thread anchored?
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:10 pm to pellietigersaint
Why do you hate facts?
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:17 pm to Lester Earl
You're an idiot and likely someone that relies on access to the LSU athletics for a living, so you're following their marching orders. LSU has nothing upon which it can suspend Wade other than one bloggers report of a transcript that was piecemeal fed to him by the criminal defense team of a convicted felon (about to be twice convicted).
LSU (and apparently then NCAA) conducted an investigation into the matter that spanned a week and multiple states, and found no wrong doing by either Smart or Wade. Had they found wrong doing by Wade, he would be gone. Again, these are the facts.
Yet, they are demanding that he come in and interview and persuade them that he didn't do anything wrong. Seriously, what employer requires an employee to come in and convince them that he/she has not done anything wrong.
LSU (and apparently then NCAA) conducted an investigation into the matter that spanned a week and multiple states, and found no wrong doing by either Smart or Wade. Had they found wrong doing by Wade, he would be gone. Again, these are the facts.
Yet, they are demanding that he come in and interview and persuade them that he didn't do anything wrong. Seriously, what employer requires an employee to come in and convince them that he/she has not done anything wrong.
This post was edited on 3/17/19 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:21 pm to ellessuuuu
quote:
LSU has nothing upon which it can suspend Wade other than one bloggers report of a transcript that was piecemeal fed to him by the criminal defense team of a convicted felon (about to be twice convicted).
Read section 3.H of his contract. Of course they do.
quote:
LSU (and apparently then NCAA) conducted an investigation into the matter that spanned a week and multiple states, and found no wrong doing by either Smart or Wade. Had they found wrong doing by Wade, he would be gone
Wade’s involvement & Smarts involvement are separate. Smart is at least 3x removed from the actual dealings on tape
quote:
Seriously, what employer requires an employee to come in and convince them that he/she has not done anything wrong.
And you think an innocent man would be displaying the behavior Wade is
This post was edited on 3/17/19 at 8:23 pm
Posted on 3/17/19 at 8:25 pm to laxtonto
quote:indeed, and I know I am making several. No denying that.
Lots of assumptions here
quote:that's not an assumption. The yahoo leak appeared just after the prosecution had it suppressed. The DOJ had a FBI wiretap suppressed. It will not be public.
Assume it doesn’t get read into evidence,
quote:yes, that is the key and biggest assumption I am making. DOJ does not have a history of giving out information they successfully had a court rule as inadmissible, neither do judges. I should be confident in this one, but I'm not.
FBI doesn’t play ball with the NCAA later,
There's a second assumption rolled into this one however: I think (assume) the DOJ's ultimate target is the NCAA itself for negligence. Maybe even party to ALL these simultaneous fraud cases- due to negligence. I'm assuming relatively soon we will hear words like "due to the NCAA's inability to enforce its own bylaws it has fostered an organization where corruption and fraud are the norm, not the exception at the expense of its members".
quote:this is probably a bad assumption on my part. You are right. There are likely other things out there; the defense has (assumingly) leaked once already. They'll do it again. Unless DOJ asks for gag order because of defense's tendency to leak to media.
the defense doesn’t have other evidence tied to WW that they enter in defense that this is wide spread in the sport. What keeps some governmental subcommittee from calling WW to testify regarding the issue in college basketball?
quote:this is where we differ. Probably due to our own experiences. I received advice from a lawyer one time, ironically when involved in a bribery case, that went like this: "if innocent, fight it. If guilty, fight it even harder".
I couldn’t recommend going down that path because of the uncertainty has disastrous implications for WW and the university.
ETA: Question on assumptions...
Just how big of an assumption is it that yahoo news accurately reported what the [defense leaked] suppressed FBI wiretap referring to Smart? Only prosecution, defense, and judge has seen it. Not court gallery, not public, not jury.
This post was edited on 3/17/19 at 8:41 pm
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