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re: Coach O is a genius for getting JOE BURROW from Ohio State.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:31 am to Todd O'Connor
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:31 am to Todd O'Connor
quote:
People are just pointing out that you don't hire an OC to find another guy to run your offense.
I thought it was made clear from the get-go that Ensminger was sort of a stop-gap OC fill. You can quibble perhaps with why that was so, but I don't think you can pretend he was hired because the head coach really thought he was "the guy" and that they just got Brady because they were scrambling to do something.
2
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:36 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I thought it was made clear from the get-go that Ensminger was sort of a stop-gap OC fill.
He tried to hire him in 2017.
And there is no logic to hiring a stop gap coach.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:36 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Don't task me. That one's been showing up daily lately. Take my word for it, or wait around... it will soon pop up again.
This is just classic. You guys are arguing with no one.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:38 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
Can you link to someone saying that in this thread? I haven't seen it. All I saw was LNCHBOX saying that Brady was the difference in the offense being better this year vs last year then you and Canwood started taking about hating and nega.
I said in a thread a few days ago that the narrative Orgeron always wanted this offense is false/misleading.
If he always wanted this offense - a RPO/spread offense - he wouldn't have hired Canada. He wouldn't have hired Jerry Sullivan.
The truth of the matter is Orgeron always wanted an efficient, potent offense (duh), but he pretty clearly didn't know who/how he was going to get it. He hired Canada, and that didn't work, so to his credit, he moved on. He hired Ensminger, but Ensminger didn't know how to install this kind of offense, so he went out and hired Brady. If he "always wanted this offense", he would have hired an RPO/Spread guy in 2017. It's pretty hard to argue otherwise, yet here we are.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:38 am to Reasonable227
quote:
The difference is they aren't TF and sophomores anymore. Wow. This improvement started showing up towards the end of last year.
No the quality of defenses tanked at the end of last year.
We only scored 24 on Arkansas in November. We only scored 24 offensive points in regulation vs. A&M. We couldn't move the ball.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:38 am to Todd O'Connor
quote:
He tried to hire him in 2017
What do you mean? He was on the staff.
quote:
And there is no logic to hiring a stop gap coach.
Yeah, you can certainly make that argument. That doesn't mean, that isn't the way it was presented, though.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:39 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I thought it was made clear from the get-go that Ensminger was sort of a stop-gap OC fill.
Who made that clear? In addition, why was a stop gap needed given it was obvious midway through the 2017 season that Canada was going bye bye? Wouldn't Orgeron have been looking for his replacement that entire time?
Besides...I thought the new narrative last year was that Ensminger WAS the OC that Orgeron wanted all along, but was forced into hiring the big name Canada and after that failed we was allowed to pick his actual choice?
LINK
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:39 am to slackster
quote:
The truth of the matter is Orgeron always wanted an efficient, potent offense
Well, we have one now and that's the important thing and it is glorious!!
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:40 am to Todd O'Connor
quote:
This is a great hire
but why coudln't O have jsut found this person in 2017 or 2018.
Why did he hire a guy to help him find a guy to install the offense he wants? Thats just not a brilliant move.
Because his MO up until this point was to run the USC offense and try to make a QB fit that offense. It took Burrow telling them that he wasn't comfortable running that offense for him to change it. And the coach needed to change it, or he would've been in real trouble. You're completely right, we could hired an spread/RPO coach in winter 2017. For reasons we still don't know, he hired Canada, who no one would mistake for a spread/RPO coach.
Maybe this is a lesson he's learned, you go out and get QBs that have proven they can run the offense you want to run. Can't just put any QB in any offense and expect it to work.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:42 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I thought the new narrative last year was that Ensminger WAS the OC that Orgeron wanted all along, but was forced into hiring the big name Canada and after that failed we was allowed to pick his actual choice?
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:44 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
Well, we have one now and that's the important thing and it is glorious!!
Exactly. I've been saying as much. Apparently I'm a hater if I question the narrative that this was the plan when Canada was hired.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:44 am to Todd O'Connor
quote:Meyer was running his Zone/Read/Option when he got to Ohio State. OSU was getting killed with Spread/RPO offenses so the transition began in 16 and 17. Wilson and Day were hired in '17, but the Spread/RPO offense wasn't fully implemented until '18
Which two years are you talking about? He had a top 25 scoring offense his first year at Ohio State and that was with a true sophomore QB who was a WR.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:47 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
TigerLunatik
I defy anyone to read that article I linked and tell me that Ensminger was considered a stop gap OC, or that what we see this year was in its infancy last year and matured this year.
LINK
Brady and his new offense is here because last year was Year #2 of poorly producing offense for a head coach who had been hired to replace a guy who refused to modernize to a productive offense. This has not been some slow roll to get us here beginning with the hiring of Steve back in 2018.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:52 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I defy anyone to read that article I linked and tell me that Ensminger was considered a stop gap OC, or that what we see this year was in its infancy last year and matured this year.
That was clearly the public proclamation after it was done, but the talk leading up to it was definitely otherwise. You know that don't you? And to be clear, I think what I'm saying makes the situation actually worse at the time.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:52 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Meyer was running his Zone/Read/Option when he got to Ohio State. OSU was getting killed with Spread/RPO offenses so the transition began in 16 and 17. Wilson and Day were hired in '17, but the Spread/RPO offense wasn't fully implemented until '18
He was playing to the strength of his QBs.
Barrett was a very successful QB in the Spread Option system and he was a 4th year starter. No reason to scarp your offense (specially a good one that has worked for a long time), and Ohio State had a top 10 offense during this "transition"
We on the other hand scrapped out terrible offense
There are lots of instances where these changes are made and are successfull right away.
TCU making the change to Cumby/Meachum in 2014
Alabama making the change with Kiffin in 2014. Blake Sims, a career backup, broke McCarron's single season passing record in 2014.
Lincoln Riley's first year at OU they went form 21st to 4th and haven't had an offense out of the top 5 in scoring since.
I think you will admit that Day had a lot more Autonomy to actually change the OSU offense last year, and had a better passing QB after BArrett.
This post was edited on 10/17/19 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 10/17/19 at 11:52 am to GeauxTigerTM
Yeah I think O and E recognized that they needed help and did an outstanding job identifying the guy to help them. I can't imagine it's easy for guys with their experience to bring in some young hot shot and let him do his thing. They deserve more credit for that than I can put into words IMO.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 12:00 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
That was clearly the public proclamation after it was done, but the talk leading up to it was definitely otherwise. You know that don't you?
No, I don't know that. I've never seen any indication that was the case. In fact, all I've seen was that Orgeron desperately wanted E to take the job when he was first hired and could not get it done. I can actually quote that... this notion that Ensminger was simply an interim guy for the 2018 season while we went and found a better OC is a new take I'm hearing for the first time from you. I'm open to reading any source material you have for this, though. Maybe I somehow missed it.
quote:
And to be clear, I think what I'm saying makes the situation actually worse at the time.
Not sure I agree...though both would be bad. The way I see it, he wanted E at first and couldn't get him so he went and hired a guy he did little research on and had a bad fit with Canada. Get the guy he wanted in Ensminger and the offense sputters...at best. it becomes clear that 2019 will be his last or very near that if he does not make HUGE strides on offense and they go for broke and go in an entirely new direction with a young offensive guy.
From one perspective, this looks like a guy fixing problems...which is great. Few things are worse than refusing to admit there's a problem and sticking with it. A different perspective would be that we failed twice in finding an OC to run his offense, and finally got it right with Brady.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 12:04 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
I can't imagine it's easy for guys with their experience to bring in some young hot shot and let him do his thing.
Which does make me wonder why we seem to be getting some many daily calls for affirmation for Orgeron and Ensminger here. You've been around a while...you ever remember anything like that during the previous staff's time here? This cloying need for fans to run and acknowledge how great so-and-so is based off half seasons worth of work?
It's weird. We could see it last year any time someone mentioned Arranda as doing an exceptional job. Immediately someone had to bring Orgeron into the conversation. You can see it this year anytime someone mentions what an extraordinary impact Brady has obviously had on the offense. You instantly get calls for "What about E?"
Posted on 10/17/19 at 12:07 pm to Todd O'Connor
The Read/Option was fading starting in '16. Clemson clobbered OSU 31-0 in a playoff game at the end of the '16 season. Then Oklahoma beat OSU 31-16 at the beginning of the '17 season (still running mostly Barrett in the Read/Option).
Meyer realized he had to go 100% Spread/RPO to compete at the playoff level.
Meyer realized he had to go 100% Spread/RPO to compete at the playoff level.
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