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bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

If we could get better OT play, without fixing any other issues, we'd likely have 2 more W's in 2018


This right here. This fix right here is the simplest way to improve the offense.

I'm not saying that the players there now can't improve but one is a converted guard and the other looked more like an interior lineman.

That's why I'm saying that if you add two athletic tackles most if your offensive problems go away. Also a better running game. Which puts us back to talent. Two good tackles and this offense is night and day difference.



WaWaWeeWa
Member since Oct 2015
4138 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

I'm not saying that the players there now can't improve but one is a converted guard and the other looked more like an interior lineman. That's why I'm saying that if you add two athletic tackles most if your offensive problems go away. Also a better running game. Which puts us back to talent. Two good tackles and this offense is night and day difference.


Like the 6-7 310 lb number 1 JUCO offensive tackle we recruited last year?

Who was offered by 33 teams including:
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Auburn
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:29 am


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Like the 6-7 310 lb number 1 JUCO offensive tackle we recruited last year?

Who was offered by 33 teams including:
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Auburn


Yeah, Badara has been very disappointing so far.

Is your point that we haven't been able to develop him, or is it that we, along with the others you've listed, all missed on their evals?


bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Like the 6-7 310 lb number 1 JUCO offensive tackle we recruited last year


He's not even on the two deep. He's another Giles. I promise if he was that great he'd be playing.


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bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Is your point that we haven't been able to develop him


He's one that was supposed to have been developed before he got here. Can't put it on development.


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

I'm not saying that the players there now can't improve but one is a converted guard and the other looked more like an interior lineman.

That's why I'm saying that if you add two athletic tackles most if your offensive problems go away. Also a better running game. Which puts us back to talent. Two good tackles and this offense is night and day difference.


Pass protection is the biggest thing to me. We can still run behind 5 interior linemen...hell, it may even help. However, pass protection has been our Achilles heel for years, all the while we blame our QB play as being that very thing.

Without that pass protection that Trevor Lawrence got the other night, he likely looks like a completely different QB, and Clemp's Son likely loses the game. Hell, Clemson barely ran the ball the whole game...that's one of the most surprising things when looking at how badly they dominated bama's D.


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bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Like the 6-7 310 lb number 1 JUCO offensive tackle we recruited last year?

Who was offered by 33 teams including:
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Auburn


You just proved my earlier point for me. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science. I hope that the light comes on for Traore and he becomes a contributor in 2019.


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

He's one that was supposed to have been developed before he got here. Can't put it on development.


Ben, LSU absolutely needs to further develop any player that they sign, whether they came from HS or JUCO. There isn't a HS or JUCO in the country that should be expected to develop their prospects the way a P5 collegiate program can.

We should expect him to be ready to compete for one of the OT spots in a few months. If he doesn't win the spot, he should at least be ready to provide decent depth.

While those programs listed absolutely could've all missed on their evals, it's not very likely, and it's likely Badara could and should contribute positively for us next season. If not then, yes, I think it's a development issue...or we took a prospect that isn't fit for what we want to do on the OL, which would be a missed eval.


Rickdaddy4188
LSU Fan
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
37999 posts
 Online 

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

This right here. This fix right here is the simplest way to improve the offense. 



2 tackles isn't gonna make lsu a good enough offense to beat bama when we are still sitting in max protect



Rickdaddy4188
LSU Fan
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
37999 posts
 Online 

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Our OL sucks


Lsu had more oline players drafted off our 2016 line than Clemson has had drafted since 2008. Its the scheme.

Clemson put up 550 yards against bama with no oline players with a draft grade.


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bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

Ben, LSU absolutely needs to further develop any player that they sign, whether they came from HS or JUCO. There isn't a HS or JUCO in the country that should be expected to develop their prospects the way a P5 collegiate program can


I agree wholeheartedly but Traore was supposed to be play ready. He's not cracking the two deep. There had to be a miss there somewhere.


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

2 tackles isn't gonna make lsu a good enough offense to beat bama when we are still sitting in max protect


With 2 decent OT's out there for us, we won't have to go to max protect.


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

I agree wholeheartedly but Traore was supposed to be play ready. He's not cracking the two deep. There had to be a miss there somewhere.


I agree it looks that way, and we'll find out in the spring and so on...if he can't contribute and at least provide depth in the 2-deep, with our dismal OT roster, then he'll absolutely have been either a missed eval and or an under-developed player. It's on our coaches, either way, especially since they're going yet another cycle in 2018 where they don't sufficiently address our OT woes.


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RB10
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2010
29288 posts
 Online 

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

When Oregon took over the program we had 9 offensive lineman on scholarship. The average is 16. At this point the numbers have been rebuilt.


You realize that people can fact check this pretty easily, correct?

2016:

Will Clapp
Andy Dodd
Ethan Pocic
Adrian Magee
Maea Teuheuma
KJ Malone
Josh Boutte
Garrett Brumfield
Jakori Savage
Chidi Okeke
Donovaughn Campbell
Willie Allen
Llyod Cushenberry
Toby Weathersby

14 total. 4 of these would transfer before 2017 and Pocic left for the draft and Boutte graduated.


2017:

Lloyd Cushenberry
Will Clapp
Adrian Magee
Garrett Brumfield
Jakori Savage
Ed Ingram
Donovaughn Campbell
Austin Deculus
Saahdiq Charles
KJ Malone
Toby Weathersby

11 total. Again, keep in mind that 4 players transferred out before this season. LSU signed 4 OL in the 2017 class, and 3 of them made it to campus.

2018:

Cole Smith
Lloyd Cushenberry
Chasen Hines
Garrett Brumfield
Jakori Savage
Adrian Magee
Donavaughn Campbell
Austin Decalus
Dare Rosenthal
Cameron Wire
Badara Traore
Saahdiq Charles


12 total. LSU signed 4 and moved Rosental over to make 5 total added to the OL from the 2018 class.

LSU has 5 commits for the 2019 class. The total should jump back to 14 or 15 for 2019, assuming no one transfers.

Do we blame Orgeron for players transferring or getting suspended? No. We also don't act like the roster was depleted because it wasn't.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 8:55 am


Rickdaddy4188
LSU Fan
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
37999 posts
 Online 

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

With 2 decent OT's out there for us, we won't have to go to max protec


We didnt HAVE to go max protect this year. There are dozens of programs with far less oline talent than lsu and they field competent offenses. Going max protect with a struggling line is 1990's football. Max protect brings more defenders to the los and limits the options of the qb. In today's football you make defenses defend horizontally and move the pocket to combat a pass rush.


OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

RB10


Nice post...thanks for the leg work.

How do we explain our OT woes in that time period?

So many of those OT's prospects listed ended up at OG for us. And the ones that didn't started off at OG and then moved to OT only to disappoint.

Pocic is the only player I see in any of those classes that actually became a benefit at OT for us...since 2016.



OppositeMan
Member since Apr 2018
1432 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

We didnt HAVE to go max protect this year. There are dozens of programs with far less oline talent than lsu and they field competent offenses. Going max protect with a struggling line is 1990's football. Max protect brings more defenders to the los and limits the options of the qb. In today's football you make defenses defend horizontally and move the pocket to combat a pass rush.


I guess we don't have to do anything, but it looked plain as day watching the games that Burrow was going to be killed in many instances if we didn't move to max protect.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that we're running 90's style football.

I'm sure you and me both want an update at OC.


RB10
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2010
29288 posts
 Online 

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

How do we explain our OT woes in that time period?


Starting with the 2016 class, we can run down the realistic OT prospects that LSU has signed. All star ratings are composite.

***This is my opinion on each player.

Willie Allen 4* (Top 20 OT) - Transferred before 2017
Jakori Savage 3* - Has been nothing more than depth
Austin Deculus 4* (Top 10 OT) - Seems to be better suited as an OG
Seth Stewart 3* - Never made it to campus
Badara Traore 4* (Top 2 Juco OT) - No idea. Missed eval I guess
Cameron Wire 3* (31st rated OT) - Hasn't played yet
Dare Rosenthal - Moved from DT. Complete unknown, but quite a bit of hype

Saahdiq Charles 4* - Moved from guard. Struggled year 1 as a tackle.

2019 commits:

Thomas Perry 3* (36th rated OT) - Tape looks good. Has potential
Ray Parker 4* (Top 16 OT) - Athletic freak, but only listed at 250. He will be a project.

The most popular opinion I've seen is that Rosenthal and Charles will be LSU's tackles next season.
This post was edited on 1/11 at 9:11 am


bencoleman
LSU Fan
Monterey
Member since Feb 2009
33644 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
I'm pretty sure that Dare and Wire started 2018 as defensive players. I wouldn't count them towards the offensive total.


La Place Mike
LSU Fan
West Florida Republic
Member since Jan 2004
21350 posts

re: Clemson’s o-line vs LSU’s o-line
quote:

next year’s U!

This is so stupid. Every team excluding Clemson is next year u. That includes Bama.


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