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Posted on 11/10/15 at 12:48 pm to AlexLSU
So second to Alabama is OK with you. Then you must love Les as a coach because he will not every beat Saban again.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 12:51 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
I'd be happy if we could beat Bama one out of three years!!
So would I.
quote:
Is that asking too much?
Asking? Nope. Demanding, expecting, making it an ultimatum that unless our coach is able to consistently beat a program that has averaged a rank of between #2 and #3 every season over the past 9 seasons or he be shown the door seems a bit unrealistic if you'd ask me.
It hurts...I agree. But not being able to consistently beat Top 3 teams is not some unheard of stat for any coach...and Miles has been as good or better at doing exactly that than most currently coaching. the fact that it's BAMA, coached by our former coach, and the road to our ultimate success leads through them is what makes otherwise rational fans act irrational on this topic I think.
If we would be taken out at this clip by some high profile Top Ranked OOC foe, we'd be sore about it...but it wouldn't derail us like this.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 12:59 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
Bama is better than everyone, not just LSU
Yes.
quote:
LSU fans are unrealistic and unwilling to accept that we probably should lose when you play one of the GOAT coaches with GOAT talent every year
I accept we will likely lose. I also accept that our coaches are unable and unwilling to find creative ways to exploit the vulnerabilities Bama does have.
Hugh Freeze has done something in back to back years that Miles hasn't done in a long time: He scored more than 20 points on Bama's defense. Bro Wallace threw for 251 yards and 3 TDs last year. Swag Kelly threw for 341 yards and 3 TDs this year. No, Ole Miss couldn't run for 100 yards on Bama but they still found a way to move the ball and make TDs.
2010 is the last year we scored 20+ points against Bama. 2005 and 2011 are the only years in the last 20 years where we scored under 20 and won the game. Save 2008, LSU has scored under 20 in every loss to Bama going back to 1984. 20 points is our glass ceiling in that game.
Does Ole Miss have superior athletes? Or do they just do a better job of using what they have? Sure, they are inconsistent but they do give themselves a better chance of winning when they play Bama by actually attacking what they can instead of going with trench warfare. Our armada is impressive but our tactics are insane.
Yes, LSU is the second best program in the conference right now. We have the potential to win all our games except Bama most years. That is much better than most.
Print the T-shirts, I guess.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:03 pm to AlexLSU
So are you telling me that when we were picked by the majority of the national experts to make the playoffs that those expectations were unrealistic? Bc Bama didn't just get on our schedule.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:08 pm to sjmabry
quote:
This is not just about Alabama, it's more about LSU looking the same week to week, regardless of the opponent. Our opponents know what we are going to do based on our personnel groupings and formations. We don't do anything other than try to muscle our opponents. Sad thing, there is that opponent in red who can't be muscled. The coaches film study should help them create a specific way to beat the opponent, but that doesn't seem to be the case with us.
This is what we're upset about, not actually losing to Bama (although losing 5 in a row is hard to take).
Hey, we know Bama is very good and losing to them will happen, but we expect our coaching staff to prepare our team for dealing with Bama. They're paid millions to do just that, and we didn't see it on Saturday night.
THAT'S what's got us all so upset.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:15 pm to AlexLSU
I can't relate, and I'm just not interested in your BS about hating Alabama and being a "fan".
One thing I'll say about your complacency angle is that you have to realize that different people have different expectations. Some people feel okay about being good, but not the best. Others are not satisfied with playing second fiddle to Alabama.
You have put a negative spin (with lame Internet snark) on the other SEC programs. As a contrast, I'll add some numbers, and a different perspective.
They have really struggled this year, but they did have the great season in 2013 (12-2, SEC Champions). Even with their struggles this year, their record in league games is on par with LSU since Malzahn has been the coach.
SEC Record Since 2013
Auburn - 13-9
LSU - 13-8
What is your basis for saying this?
The state of Arkansas does not produce a lot of big-time college players year in, year out. Louisiana yearly has many more college prospects. I'm talking about much more than double. If you ran the numbers (and obviously it would depend on time frame and qualifiers) it would probably be somewhere around quintuple-decuple, maybe more.
Since 2007, LSU's record vs. Arkansas is 4-4.
Mullen has done a good job with MSU.
SEC Record Last 3 Years
MSU - 12-9
LSU - 13-8
They're relatively inconsistent, but Ole Miss and LSU have the same amount of conference wins over the past 3 years.
A big part of LSU's success vs. Texas A&M was John Chavis' defensive style. As a coordinator, he matched up very well with A&M's offensive style. It will be interesting to see how LSU defends A&M this year (if A&M is clicking on O).
Records Since 2012
Texas A&M - 34-14
LSU - 35-12
True.
They do have more conference wins than LSU since 2012, and one top-10 finish (LSU - 0).
Records Since 2012
Georgia - 36-13 (Eastern Division Champions in 2012)
LSU - 35-12
Fantastic analysis, Alex.
Tennessee is improving. They play hard, and they've lost some close games this year.
They played Alabama much closer and tougher than LSU did.
More Internet snark from Alex. LOL.
Records Since 2012
South Carolina - 32-16
LSU - 35-12
USC has had two 11-win seasons since 2012 (LSU - 0), and two top-10 finishes since 2012 (LSU - 0).
There's that squirrelly snark again.
11-Win Seasons Since 2012
Missouri - 2
LSU - 0
First-Place Finishes in Division Since 2012
Missouri - 2
LSU - 0
One thing I'll say about your complacency angle is that you have to realize that different people have different expectations. Some people feel okay about being good, but not the best. Others are not satisfied with playing second fiddle to Alabama.
You have put a negative spin (with lame Internet snark) on the other SEC programs. As a contrast, I'll add some numbers, and a different perspective.
quote:
Auburn
They have really struggled this year, but they did have the great season in 2013 (12-2, SEC Champions). Even with their struggles this year, their record in league games is on par with LSU since Malzahn has been the coach.
SEC Record Since 2013
Auburn - 13-9
LSU - 13-8
quote:
Arkansas - Perennial underachievers
What is your basis for saying this?
The state of Arkansas does not produce a lot of big-time college players year in, year out. Louisiana yearly has many more college prospects. I'm talking about much more than double. If you ran the numbers (and obviously it would depend on time frame and qualifiers) it would probably be somewhere around quintuple-decuple, maybe more.
Since 2007, LSU's record vs. Arkansas is 4-4.
quote:
Miss State
Mullen has done a good job with MSU.
SEC Record Last 3 Years
MSU - 12-9
LSU - 13-8
quote:
Ole Miss - Three losses this year already and wildly inconsistent as a program
They're relatively inconsistent, but Ole Miss and LSU have the same amount of conference wins over the past 3 years.
quote:
A&M - We own them
A big part of LSU's success vs. Texas A&M was John Chavis' defensive style. As a coordinator, he matched up very well with A&M's offensive style. It will be interesting to see how LSU defends A&M this year (if A&M is clicking on O).
Records Since 2012
Texas A&M - 34-14
LSU - 35-12
quote:
UF - We've won 4/5 against them, went 4-8 two seasons ago
True.
They do have more conference wins than LSU since 2012, and one top-10 finish (LSU - 0).
quote:
Georgia - This program is in disarray
Records Since 2012
Georgia - 36-13 (Eastern Division Champions in 2012)
LSU - 35-12
quote:
Tennessee - LOL
Fantastic analysis, Alex.
Tennessee is improving. They play hard, and they've lost some close games this year.
They played Alabama much closer and tougher than LSU did.
quote:
South Carolina - LOL
More Internet snark from Alex. LOL.
Records Since 2012
South Carolina - 32-16
LSU - 35-12
USC has had two 11-win seasons since 2012 (LSU - 0), and two top-10 finishes since 2012 (LSU - 0).
quote:
Mizzou - LOL
There's that squirrelly snark again.
11-Win Seasons Since 2012
Missouri - 2
LSU - 0
First-Place Finishes in Division Since 2012
Missouri - 2
LSU - 0
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:21 pm to inadaze
But those programs don't have the negative fans that LSU has. If our fanbase were only more positive we would've beat Bama.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:25 pm to Islander
"Sorry to butt in, but it is well known that UA is built to beat LSU. You have to get through that game before you can get to the next level. LSU is very good every year so that is why UA has them as the by week opponent to heal up from being everybody's best game and get ready for a physical battle."
And yet most Bama fans and Saban do not claim LSU as a "rival".
There is no other team in the country Nick enjoys beating than LSU. You can see it in his prep, in his players and at the end of each win, the sheer joy in getting that win over LSU. It has been CLM's bad luck to have CNS coaching at the same time. I don't know where LSU would be right now had Saban not become the coach he is.
And yet most Bama fans and Saban do not claim LSU as a "rival".
There is no other team in the country Nick enjoys beating than LSU. You can see it in his prep, in his players and at the end of each win, the sheer joy in getting that win over LSU. It has been CLM's bad luck to have CNS coaching at the same time. I don't know where LSU would be right now had Saban not become the coach he is.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:44 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
Miles out schemed Saban in both games.
I completely disagree. I doubt that you have good reasoning for saying this. Maybe you're just repeating something that you've heard. Miles has done some things in the past that have worked against Alabama, but I don't think he's capable of "out-scheming" Saban.
I thought Alabama had some flaws in their offensive game plan last year, but that was more about Kiffin than Saban.
Since 2011, the LSU running game has consistently stalled vs. Alabama (even when LSU matched up well along the LOS/in the run game), and there haven't been significant adjustments to get it going. With Miles-style ball, the running game is vital to LSU's success.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:47 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
Why do we think we should be better than Alabama and thus define our own team's worth by that one game?
Because the fans want to be the best, and be the best you have to beat the best.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 1:52 pm to inadaze
quote:
inadaze
First...I really do appreciate the time you took to do that. Honestly, that's what makes message boards so much better than stupid Twittr.
That being said, that was a long way to go to cherry pick those stats to paint LSU as mediocre and relatable to all those programs. Why not compare all programs from the same start date of when LSU's resurgence began in 2000? Or, since we're talking about Miles' tenure, what's wrong with comparing LSU's program to the rest of the SEC beginning in 2005? Without doing the research at the moment to pull those up, I'd be VERY surprised to find that LSU was not at LEAST the #2 program in all of the SEC during that time frame...
Instead, you seem to have decided to choose a different date for every program that gave them the best chance to compare to LSU.
I've got to run out, so I likely won't be able to respond any time soon...but I did want to add that, and like I said, I did want to thank you for the post. I don't agree, but this place would be tremendously better if this was the way thing went down here.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:00 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
Sure. We have comparable talent every year with them. BUT, we will NEVER beat them again as long as Les Miles coaches here.
We get out-coached every time we play them. '
Fixed it for you
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:02 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
Do you predict LSU to go 12-0 before every season? If not, how dare you think LSU may lose to certain teams! Some of you dolts must think that a fan's perspective has some sort of bearing on whether or not LSU will actually win the game.
I expect us to go beat every team on our schedule that we are more talented than and compete with every team on our schedule that we have similar talent with. That's the level I want us to be. We have the talent and resources to do that.
quote:
And you saying "we aren't trying to be better and will accept relative mediocrity" is idiotic hyperbole. You know what relatively mediocre means in this case, right? Since we are talking about Alabama, they are the measuring stick for our "relative" mediocrity. If we are mediocre relative to them, then every other team is as well. LSU is 7-1 and can very well finish 10-1. Is 10-1 really as bad as you're making it seem when our loss is to a top 4 team? Get a clue
We're 0-5 in our last 5. And game 1 and game 5 of that streak played out PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY LIKE EACH OTHER.
I don't care about other teams or how they look. I care about my team. The one I support. I want us to get better. I want us to have some semblance of a clue when we play a team that we're chasing. If they straight beat us, ok. But don't beat ourselves. I want us to compete for championships. And until we beat Alabama, we won't be doing that. We're at 1401 days and counting.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:11 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Why not compare all programs from the same start date of when LSU's resurgence began in 2000?
Two reasons for not using that start date (or something similar):
1. To look at how programs have done recently, and/or to look at how teams have done with their current head coach.
2. And this is the main reason (I mentioned it in that post) -- to offset/counteract the disrespect/negative portrayal of other SEC teams from Alex. I wouldn't have posted that if he/she wouldn't have tried to put a negative spin on other programs.
I just think it's irritating when people do that kind of thing. I know it's fairly common, but I see it as trashing the efforts and achievements of all the people involved with those programs. Frankly, I don't even find these kinds of conversations that interesting (the results-only conversations). Part of it is a journey-destination thing, where I have a perspective that puts emphasis on the journey/process, but generally, I just find so many other aspects of the game much more interesting.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:12 pm to poochie
The probelem is the scheme we run is the EXACT same scheme they run.
When we try to go man to man with them we are going to lose 9/10 times. They are better at running power football and have more talent all around than us.
The only way we get an edge on them is by throwing a different scheme at them and that is not going to happen with our current coaching staff.
Every year in this game we are going to try to out man Bama and its going to be extremely tough.
The problem is Miles isn't changing his scheme anytime soon, probably never will. He is set in his ways. LSU has been successful running power football and can beat most teams we play.
When we try to go man to man with them we are going to lose 9/10 times. They are better at running power football and have more talent all around than us.
The only way we get an edge on them is by throwing a different scheme at them and that is not going to happen with our current coaching staff.
Every year in this game we are going to try to out man Bama and its going to be extremely tough.
The problem is Miles isn't changing his scheme anytime soon, probably never will. He is set in his ways. LSU has been successful running power football and can beat most teams we play.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:14 pm to CBandits82
quote:He doesn't have to change his scheme. We have seen the variation of plays and formations. We were more creative in the 6 plays against McNeese than we have been all season. I understand the threat of losing to McNeese allow creativity, but I know they practice shotgun and single back plays. Everything doesn't have to revolve around the I.
The problem is Miles isn't changing his scheme anytime soon, probably never will. He is set in his ways. LSU has been successful running power football and can beat most teams we play.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:16 pm to sjmabry
I agree, at least throw a couple of wrinkles in there somewhere for this game.
The playbook becomes this during the Bama game:
Going up against Bama man to man is madness.
The playbook becomes this during the Bama game:
Going up against Bama man to man is madness.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:17 pm to sjmabry
quote:
You can't tell me Les looked at the bama tapes and said, yeah, we can run on them all day.
I don't know about the coaches, but the sentiment on the Rant was certainly that we would have success on the ground.
Posted on 11/10/15 at 2:18 pm to biglego
quote:
I swear LSU fans are obsessed with the word "gimmick". If you think GT runs a gimmick offense then what's not a gimmick?
I swear that some LSU fans are obsessed with semantics, as opposed to dealing with the subject at hand, via deflecting.
This post was edited on 11/10/15 at 2:19 pm
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