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Started By
Message
re: Athletic program goals and coaches at LSU
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:46 pm to Scoob
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:46 pm to Scoob
quote:
LSU baseball won 7 national titles
nah just 6 wish it was 7 but just 6. It's not that hard to remember either. 5 titles in the 90s (the most crazy pace ever, and we will never see it again), 1 in 2009. If you have followed LSU baseball at-least decently close you know this stat. Maybe it was just at typo
quote:
all of them since ESPN began carrying the sport. We have the biggest fanbase, the best facilities.. we ARE the Duke of college baseball. Until very recently, we were far and away the most recognizable program in the sport; now it's dropped to "certainly in contention".
It SHOULD be a goal to make it to Omaha every season; to win it at least once every 5 yrs or so. That's not unrealistic, it's knowing what you are/can be. This season was mediocre by LSU standards; we made (and hosted) a regional, and won the SEC tourney. That's bare minimum based on what we've built here.
Off the top of my head these are teams that should have similar expectations to the Tigers.
Florida State
North Carolina
South Carolina
Florida
Vanderbilt
Cal State fullerton
Miami
Virginia
Texas
Oregon State
These are the traditional power houses in college baseball. I may be leaving a couple out.
There are other teams who are very good who aren't the traditional power houses but can have a good stretch
Indiana
TCU
Rice
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
UCLA
UC Irvine
Houston
I could go on and on
I think you get my point I hope.
College baseball is very competitive. This season there were no clear favorites like last year. LSU Vandy and UNC were the heavy weights at the top of the country. Vandy didn't make it out of their regional, but LSUs record setting season wasn't a better record than Vandy. The simple point is to expect LSU to make it to Omaha every single season, when there are probably about 30 teams or so who are all good enough to make it to Omaha if not more, is unrealistic.
make it to omaha 50% of the time is pretty impressive
win a championship 2 or 3 times in a decade is pretty impressive.
be a national seed 50% or more of the time is pretty impressive.
this I except a national championship every season is just not realistic in any sport. (unless your Alabama in football
)This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 5:47 pm
0
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:46 pm to Adam Banks
Show me where I made any kind of irrational or off-base statement trying to defend Alleva. Our athletics across the board are better than they ever have been. We have improved or are improving every major facility and are also working on the smaller ones as we speak. The athletic department basically prints money, so much that they donate approx. 4 million to the academic end of LSU every year. Sorry that all of this leaves me feeling somewhat satisfied. And "in love with Alleva"? Grow the frick up. Using strong words and making cogent arguments in favor of Alleva doesn't equate to being in love with him or taking any criticism of him as a personal attack. Baseless attacks of any nature annoy me.
As far as Mainieri, the last three seasons have ended unceremoniously and disappointingly. No denying that. That said, I'd hardly qualify getting a top 8 seed three years in a row as resting on his laurels.
As far as Mainieri, the last three seasons have ended unceremoniously and disappointingly. No denying that. That said, I'd hardly qualify getting a top 8 seed three years in a row as resting on his laurels.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:51 pm to lsu2006
edit: I misunderstood your post. so it changes directed at all who think CPM is a bad coach.
you can't ignore regular season success, LSU last season had the best record in the HISTORY OF LSU BASEBALL. Let that sink in for a second.
LSU had 11 losses in 57 games. LSU won an outstanding 83% of their games in the toughest conference in the country. No Crappy coach could ever accomplish something like this.
We got beat by the national champions and the #1 seed in Omaha. Sure we should have one both games, there is no denying that, but that was one of the greatest teams LSU has ever seen, they just got cold and unlucky at the exact wrong time.
2012 wasn't to shabby either. LSU came off their two worst seasons only be overshadowed by CPMs first after Smoke left the team in ashes. We came back to win by a tie break the SEC.
Ok we have had some bad luck in the post season, but CPM is sending this program in the right direction.
you can't ignore regular season success, LSU last season had the best record in the HISTORY OF LSU BASEBALL. Let that sink in for a second.
LSU had 11 losses in 57 games. LSU won an outstanding 83% of their games in the toughest conference in the country. No Crappy coach could ever accomplish something like this.
We got beat by the national champions and the #1 seed in Omaha. Sure we should have one both games, there is no denying that, but that was one of the greatest teams LSU has ever seen, they just got cold and unlucky at the exact wrong time.
2012 wasn't to shabby either. LSU came off their two worst seasons only be overshadowed by CPMs first after Smoke left the team in ashes. We came back to win by a tie break the SEC.
Ok we have had some bad luck in the post season, but CPM is sending this program in the right direction.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:53 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:Omaha is making the final 8. LSU has 7 national titles since 91, which is more than anyone in football or basketball over that same period.
LSU should be in Omaha almost every year, IMO. Those are the expectations. Best recruiting, best stadium, best fans, best facilities. I think it's OK to expect that.
So Miles should be in the BCS every year, likely meaning he wins the SEC every year or hopes for an at-large
because that is the football equivalent to making it to Omaha.
Note: The most successful active coach in making it to Omaha since CPM took over at LSU is Mike Fox for UNC and he has only made it 4 times. That is half of the time. CPM is 3/8 with one national championships.
Would you say Duke, Kentucky etc would expect to make the Elite 8 in basketball every year? I would. How many titles have they won over that same period?
If you want to talk football, then go with Ohio State or Alabama (or USC when there isn't suspensions)... and yes, their expectation is to make it to a BCS level bowl every season. That is the level they have established within the sport, and they are doing it at a lesser level than LSU established in baseball.
edited- ok, 6 then. Still, we're talking unprecedented dominance within the sport. It's unreasonable to ask that you continue WINNING THE TITLE at that pace, but to continue to go should be basically understood.
South Carolina won some titles, that's like Florida rising up to challenge Kentucky in basketball. If a team in your conference is good enough to bump LSU off the top, it should be good enough to challenge/win the CWS. Anything less, like saying "we want to be a good team" is conceding your place.
It's like saying Miami football is fine with going to bowls, because the ACC is tougher; and that somehow the program is still on the same grounds it was before. Truth is, Miami was a perennial national championship contender, and they've fallen way off. They now can't sniff the jocks of programs like Bama.
Do we want to be Miami football? Or do we still strive for the level we had achieved?
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 6:03 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 5:57 pm to Scoob
There's a big difference between expecting something and considering the season a failure when it doesn't happen.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:02 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
For some reason you are in love with Joe Alleva and any criticism (direct or indirect) of the guy is a personal thing to you. Maineri is riding high off an NC from years ago and Joe is willing to sit on his hands and let him do that. Just like he does with the SEC office
This couldn't be more baseless.
Being at the top of the pack should expected in most years here. Since 2008, LSU has been a top 8 national seed 5/7 times. The only other programs in the country who can say that are North Carolina, Florida, and Florida State. None of them have national titles during that time.
Most major schools in the south are investing in their programs just as much as LSU is now. We aren't the only ones anymore. The sense of entitlement from LSU fans still living in the 90s needs to stop.
Going to Omaha every 2-3 years should be a reasonable standard. Being a top 8 national seed every 2 years should be a reasonable standard. This isn't to say Omaha isn't our goal every single year, but we shouldn't be unrealistic here.
Name any other program in the country who wouldn't trade their past 7 years for LSUs. South Carolina is the only one. I'm disappointed in how this season ended just as much as you are, but you need to seriously have a reality check and learn to appreciate what we have here.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:04 pm to TigerCub
quote:
There's a big difference between expecting something and considering the season a failure when it doesn't happen.
This
Our goals are to make it to Omaha and win the national title every year, but that doesn't mean every season we don't is a waste. I know I enjoyed a shite ton of games over the last 3 years even without a national title.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:04 pm to Scoob
quote:
LSU has 7 national titles since 91
stop saying 7 it is 6
LSU won in 1991 1993 1996 1997 2000 2009
But there is no denying that the run LSU made in the 90s may be one of the greatest runs in spots since probably the 1980s. Anything before the 1980s in college sports really isn't a fair comparison the competition was nothing compared to what we have seen from that the 80s if not the 90s on. The closest we saw a team come to that in the modern era of college baseball was Tanner and the South Carolina Gamecocks, making it to the national championship series 3 straight years winning it twice losing once. South Carolina hasn't been back since losing in 2012. They also had a 5 year drought of making it to omaha. No-one would question that Ray Tanner was one of the greatest coaches in Modern college baseball. He made it to Oamah a total of 6 times in 15 years. CPM is about this pace.
If one of the greatest coaches in Modern college baseball doesn't make it to Omaha every year, why does LSU?
Every team will go through ups and downs. Cal State fullerton almost didn't make the tourney this year, UNC didn't make the tourney this year. UNC could jump back into being a contender next year. UNC has as high as expectations as LSU does for CPM.
the 90s will never happen again for any school. Using that as the bar is unrealistic. CPM is doing a good job, he makes mistakes yes, so does Nick Saban and all praise him as the greatest coach in college football history.
CPM is what is needed for LSU baseball.
oh and so in Miles. (even though I would love to see him take another job, he brings success yes but he just makes us all to nervous.)
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:08 pm to TigerCub
quote:
There's a big difference between expecting something and considering the season a failure when it doesn't happen.
I can agree with this.
I was happy with the success of this team, despite losing three great offensive weapons. Katz Rhymes and Jones (he did underachieve, but he was one of the most athletic 2B in the country last year) We also lost Cotton, practically 2 starting pitchers (one left, one fell apart). The fact that we were still a top 8 national seed is very impressive for a team who well going into the season would have been lucky to host.
Note: Yes the end of the season sucked, but almost every team will have a bad ending with the exception of a handful of teams. If LSU went 1-2 in Omaha I bet people would be saying this was a bad showing we should have won it all.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:27 pm to TigerCub
quote:This season wasn't a failure; we won the SEC tourney and hosted a regional. It's just not a "success", not when you consider our past standard. Wasn't this the first regional we hosted and didn't make it to the super regional round? If not, it's on a very short list. (just looked it up, it's the 2nd).
There's a big difference between expecting something and considering the season a failure when it doesn't happen
Going back to 1986, this season (postseason):
is ahead of 1988, 2006, 2007, and 2011- those seasons didn't get into postseason at all.
is ahead of 2010, where they went 1-2 at another regional.
Is even with 2005, where they went 2-2 and Rice took our regional.
Is behind all other seasons-
before super-regional play, we at least made the finals of the regional (which is the equivalent of making the super-regional round). That happened twice with Fullerton, here in BR. All other seasons with only regionals, we made the CWS (10 seasons).
since the super-regional round came into existance (1999), we've advanced to the super regional round 10 seasons.
Cliff notes- since 1986, we've had 28 seasons. We've had 20 seasons that were clearly better than this year, 2 more that you can make a valid argument were better, 2 about on the same level, and 4 that were clearly worse.
That may not be failure, but it isn't success either
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:33 pm to Scoob
Look from 2000 on this is an above average season
Comparing us to the 90s is unfair that was the greatest stretch in college baseball since USC won it almost every year. That was back in the 70s and before
Comparing us to the 90s is unfair that was the greatest stretch in college baseball since USC won it almost every year. That was back in the 70s and before
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:53 pm to lsu2006
quote:What I can't figure is LSU is on pace to do what many DEMAND in 8 years (after a questionable no-invite year).
Make the tourney every year
- Host a regional 8/10 years
- Play in a super 7 or 8 times/10 years, host 5 or 6 times
- Omaha 4 or so times per 10 years
1 NC
3 CWS appearances
4 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
6 Regionals
Let the bitchfest continue.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 6:53 pm to secman12
You should run these numbers for the other 13 SEC programs.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 7:53 pm to prplngldtigr
Alleva is not mediocre.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 8:50 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Yeah, Houston like totally sux!!
And Stony Brook totally didn't have 7 players drafter in 2012.
Tell me where I said those teams sux?
Posted on 6/4/14 at 8:57 pm to Mayhawman
just look at the top programs constantly, we all know were have a better resume than Auburn, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, a couple others that slip my mind
but
MSU
0 NC (1 runner up)
1 CWS Appearnces
0 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
4 Regionals (only one host)
Vandy
0 NC
1 CWS appearances
3 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
USCe
2 NC (1 runner up)
3 CWS appearances
2 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
Arkansas
0 NC
2 CWS appearances
0 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
Florida
0 NC 1 runner up
3 CWS appearances
5 Top 8 seeds/ super regional hosts
5 Regionals
Edit: Georgia Made in in 08
0 NC 1 runner up (2008)
1 CWS appearance (2008)
1 top 8 seed (2008)
3 Regionals.
note: name another SEC team who has made a CWS appearance in the 8 last years and I will add them to this list.
Ranking each Section
NC
#1 USCe
#2 LSU
everyone else tied with 0 titles
CWS appearances
#1 LSU
#1 USCe
#1 Florida
#4 Arkansas
#5 MSU
#5 Vandy
Top 8 seeds
#1 Florida
#2 LSU
#3 Vandy
#4 USCe
#5 MSU
#5 Arkansas
NCAA tourney appearances
#1 Vandy
#1 USCe
#1 Arkansas
#4 LSU
#5 Florida
#6 MSU
From my perspective the top 6 Resumes in the SEC of the last 8 years (under CPMs tenure)
#1 USCe (2 national championships trump everything,
#2 LSU (While Florida has been a top 8 seed an amazing 5 times, they seem to only make it into the tourney as a top 8 seed.)
#3 Florida (Best team without a national championship)
#4 Vandy (Top 8 seeds put them over Ark and MSU)
#5 Arkansas (got to the CWS twice but never hosting puts them behind Vandy)
#6 MSU (they use to be one of the top programs in the country, but these last 8 years while in the top 6 in the SEC, isn't very impressive)
#7 Georgia (they are the only other team with a CWS birth other than the teams already mentioned.)
#8-14 No other them in the last 8 years have made it to Omaha. (I'm not counting Texas aTm they have only been a part of the SEC for 2 seasons)
Edit: The only coach with a more impressive Resume than CPM is Tanner, who is no longer coaching, and his replacement hasn't done great no national seeds after USCe went to 3 straight title series.
So if you want to fire the Coach with the most impressive resume over last 8 years who is still coaching go ahead. We will take a big step back.
The only other schools int he country that may have better resumes are FSU, Virignia, North Carolina.
but
MSU
0 NC (1 runner up)
1 CWS Appearnces
0 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
4 Regionals (only one host)
Vandy
0 NC
1 CWS appearances
3 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
USCe
2 NC (1 runner up)
3 CWS appearances
2 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
Arkansas
0 NC
2 CWS appearances
0 Top 8 seeds /Supers hosted
8 Regionals
Florida
0 NC 1 runner up
3 CWS appearances
5 Top 8 seeds/ super regional hosts
5 Regionals
Edit: Georgia Made in in 08
0 NC 1 runner up (2008)
1 CWS appearance (2008)
1 top 8 seed (2008)
3 Regionals.
note: name another SEC team who has made a CWS appearance in the 8 last years and I will add them to this list.
Ranking each Section
NC
#1 USCe
#2 LSU
everyone else tied with 0 titles
CWS appearances
#1 LSU
#1 USCe
#1 Florida
#4 Arkansas
#5 MSU
#5 Vandy
Top 8 seeds
#1 Florida
#2 LSU
#3 Vandy
#4 USCe
#5 MSU
#5 Arkansas
NCAA tourney appearances
#1 Vandy
#1 USCe
#1 Arkansas
#4 LSU
#5 Florida
#6 MSU
From my perspective the top 6 Resumes in the SEC of the last 8 years (under CPMs tenure)
#1 USCe (2 national championships trump everything,
#2 LSU (While Florida has been a top 8 seed an amazing 5 times, they seem to only make it into the tourney as a top 8 seed.)
#3 Florida (Best team without a national championship)
#4 Vandy (Top 8 seeds put them over Ark and MSU)
#5 Arkansas (got to the CWS twice but never hosting puts them behind Vandy)
#6 MSU (they use to be one of the top programs in the country, but these last 8 years while in the top 6 in the SEC, isn't very impressive)
#7 Georgia (they are the only other team with a CWS birth other than the teams already mentioned.)
#8-14 No other them in the last 8 years have made it to Omaha. (I'm not counting Texas aTm they have only been a part of the SEC for 2 seasons)
Edit: The only coach with a more impressive Resume than CPM is Tanner, who is no longer coaching, and his replacement hasn't done great no national seeds after USCe went to 3 straight title series.
So if you want to fire the Coach with the most impressive resume over last 8 years who is still coaching go ahead. We will take a big step back.
The only other schools int he country that may have better resumes are FSU, Virignia, North Carolina.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 9:19 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:02 pm to catholictigerfan
Georgia has been.
Edit: sorry, just realized u said in the LAST year.
Edit: sorry, just realized u said in the LAST year.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:05 pm to catholictigerfan
Name another program besides South Carolina that has had a better past 7 years than LSU.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:07 pm to prplngldtigr
quote:
Edit: sorry, just realized u said in the LAST year.
last 8 years. (that was my fault)
We are talking about CPM. If we were to compare SEC teams to LSU of the 90s it would be no comparison.
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:14 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Name another program besides South Carolina that has had a better past 7 years than LSU.
only other team you could make an argument for is Florida but they have made 1 less tourney appearances, 1 less NC, and the same amount of appearances in Omaha.
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