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Message
re: A good, modern offense doesn't require a QB to "read the entire field"
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:12 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:12 am to crazy4lsu
Rock's just trying to get a swipe in. He's been salty since crypto has cratered and all his irrational confidence and arrogance was thrown back at him.
A better response would have been going with the "BK can't recruit" narrative that he relied on previously to explain why ND always had such talentless QBs (Rees, Book, etc.) once they stopped going for the mobile guys who can't throw (Winbush, Kizer, etc.)
A better response would have been going with the "BK can't recruit" narrative that he relied on previously to explain why ND always had such talentless QBs (Rees, Book, etc.) once they stopped going for the mobile guys who can't throw (Winbush, Kizer, etc.)
1
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:16 am to SlowFlowPro
You are 100% right. Even our 2019 offense was built exactly this way.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:19 am to crazy4lsu
If it wasn't clear, this thread was also a defense of one of our players, because too many people criticize him for the wrong reasons on here.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:22 am to GFunk
quote:
Post snap goes hand in hand with pre snap. If you don’t get pre snap right then post snap is where it goes to hell in a hand basket.
Read this sentence again. You yourself are placing all the importance on pre-snap reads. The point of modern offenses is to limit pre-snap reads and place less 'thinking' in the hands of the QB, rather than letting them just play. The entire spread offense from Mumme, Leach, and others was simplicity. You guys aren't thinking any of your arguments through.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If it wasn't clear, this thread was also a defense of one of our players, because too many people criticize him for the wrong reasons on here.
Daniels in the 2019 offense would also be immensely productive, even if he doesn't have the same pocket awareness as Burrow. It beggars belief that people can't see we are running something that is something like if Miles decided to update his offense in 2009 or something.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:50 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
. You yourself are placing all the importance on pre-snap reads. The point of modern offenses is to limit pre-snap reads and place less 'thinking' in the hands of the QB, rather than letting them just play. The entire spread offense from Mumme, Leach, and others was simplicity. You guys aren't thinking any of your arguments through.
Presnap reads are important but the scheme is supposed to make them simple. Once you know man v. zone and where the safeties are, the QB should have an idea of where to go. That's the "1-2 reads". The hard part is having the WRs read the same as the QB, b/c the routes change based on the (hopefully simplified) presnap reads.
quote:
The entire spread offense from Mumme, Leach, and others was simplicity.
And that Leach offense, like the philosophy and coaching behind it, is the backbone of every major offense, college or pro, today.
And WRs reading the defense with the QB sounds complicated but Leach and his progeny can install that offense in a few weeks. The key is being a better, smarter, and more creative coach to make it easier on your players. That's the defining characteristic of a "modern" offense.
Dino offense are stuck in the "we need a complicated system" mindset, often with a "you run to set up the pass" mindset. Both are wrong. Passing sets up the run. Play action works if you can run the ball or not. Offenses work better if the reads are simplified but the scheme does the work for the players.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:57 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
even if he doesn't have the same pocket awareness as Burrow.
People need to go rewatch that 2019 offense.
Burrow, for all of his advanced ability to read defenses, made a TON of crucial plays off script. He'd do the 1-2 reads, then break outside the pocket waiting for his WRs to come back to him and find holes.
It wasn't this "Burrow sits in the pocket and goes through read 1, read 2, read 3, read 4, and then his RB" system that people seem to want JD to be running today.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:except they threw their a bunch last night to Bech. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Kelly depends on tight ends and you’re saying he doesn’t want them to run seam routes? Dude get the hell out of here.
Cool. Denbrock specifically wants his QBs not throwing there
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 9:04 am
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:09 am to Tiger1988
quote:
You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
My comments are based on comments Denbrock himself has made, per this board. He wants our passing focused outside the hashes.
My comments about the middle of the field aren't my "read" on the offense or anything.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
getting a QB on the same page with WR to run a modern offenses is nearly an impossible task at the college level.
only team even with talent who could do is Ohio State. so one team in the entire country
also I bought most of my BTC/crypto under $100 but thx for your concern about my wallet lmao
only team even with talent who could do is Ohio State. so one team in the entire country
also I bought most of my BTC/crypto under $100 but thx for your concern about my wallet lmao
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:12 am to Tiger1988
quote:
except they threw their a bunch last night to Bech. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Kelly depends on tight ends and you’re saying he doesn’t want them to run seam routes?
he makes up fake scenarios that do not and could not exist and then argues against them
it's a waste of time
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:15 am to rocket31
quote:
getting a QB on the same page with WR to run a modern offenses is nearly an impossible task at the college level.
Except literally every air raid-based system does this and it gets installed quickly.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
complicated but Leach and his progeny can install that offense in a few weeks.
such an installation.
the qb goes 24/42 vs the only team they've played with a pulse this year
super impressive
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Except literally every air raid-based system does this and it gets installed quickly.
installing is execution
they don't execute at any competent level
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro
A “modern” offense requires a QB to make pre-snap reads, then ascertain, post-snap, if those reads were correct. Then he has to go to the defense’s weakness. BY scouting the defense’s tendencies, they can eliminate most of the defense and let the QB focus on about three players. But then you face someone like Aranda and all that goes out the window. Moron QBs and “modern” offenses are why Aranda feasts.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:26 am to SlowFlowPro
No, SFP. You have to:
Read pre snap
Read post snap
Read strong/weak (if zone)
Read matchup (if man)
Read open/void if progression
Read secondary alignment if vertical concept
Read horizontally if shallow/crosser/quick game concept
Your entire point is 1/2 reads and just by going through this mental exercise with you-and watching your literally agree-it’s the defeat of your point. There is no modern day offense at the P5 level that won’t have the aforementioned basics baked into it for the QB.
RE: your alleged motion to 0 backfield, that works with the QB can effectively read and audible or the check with Me’s are accurate and line protection up AND YOU HAVE ADEQUATE PROTECTION. But our tackles are still very young, our line has been in complete flux and our interior pass pro was leaky against New Mexico State of all people.
Without a QB and/or sideline read and adjustment COUPLED with effective OL pass pro then you can’t run 0 personnel via a pre snap shift. You have to keep the back in to chip, run personal protector responsibility or be a late leak to the flat for the check down if it’s more of a vertical concept playcall.
Joe Brady’s offense can’t work without Joe Burrow and the best OL in CFB (3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick at the skill spots outside of the Heisman winner at QB doesn’t hurt either).
With every post and every attempt to pretzel your original opinion into being right no matter what, you’re exposing yourself as someone who doesn’t know what you’re talking about. Literally.
You even admitted your entire opinion is based off of listening to Trent Dilfer talk.
Seriously. Find another hill to die on. You didn’t even make it to the top of this one before getting clipped.
Read pre snap
Read post snap
Read strong/weak (if zone)
Read matchup (if man)
Read open/void if progression
Read secondary alignment if vertical concept
Read horizontally if shallow/crosser/quick game concept
Your entire point is 1/2 reads and just by going through this mental exercise with you-and watching your literally agree-it’s the defeat of your point. There is no modern day offense at the P5 level that won’t have the aforementioned basics baked into it for the QB.
RE: your alleged motion to 0 backfield, that works with the QB can effectively read and audible or the check with Me’s are accurate and line protection up AND YOU HAVE ADEQUATE PROTECTION. But our tackles are still very young, our line has been in complete flux and our interior pass pro was leaky against New Mexico State of all people.
Without a QB and/or sideline read and adjustment COUPLED with effective OL pass pro then you can’t run 0 personnel via a pre snap shift. You have to keep the back in to chip, run personal protector responsibility or be a late leak to the flat for the check down if it’s more of a vertical concept playcall.
Joe Brady’s offense can’t work without Joe Burrow and the best OL in CFB (3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick at the skill spots outside of the Heisman winner at QB doesn’t hurt either).
With every post and every attempt to pretzel your original opinion into being right no matter what, you’re exposing yourself as someone who doesn’t know what you’re talking about. Literally.
You even admitted your entire opinion is based off of listening to Trent Dilfer talk.
Seriously. Find another hill to die on. You didn’t even make it to the top of this one before getting clipped.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:54 am to GFunk
quote:
ou even admitted your entire opinion is based off of listening to Trent Dilfer talk.
No. This has been my argument about offense for going on 20 years. He just communicated it very well from a point of authority.
quote:
your alleged motion to 0 backfield, that works with the QB can effectively read and audible or the check with Me’s are accurate and line protection up AND YOU HAVE ADEQUATE PROTECTION
That's only one way to use motion to help the defense expose itself. I used the example b/c it's the easiest to show people and it's form 2019 LSU, which is the only year when we ran a modern offense since Saban took over (so it has authority with the fanbase as a way you can win).
quote:
Read strong/weak (if zone)
Read matchup (if man)
Read open/void if progression
Read secondary alignment if vertical concept
Read horizontally if shallow/crosser/quick game concept
So I say 1-2 reads and you post 3 legit post-snap reads and you're saying I'm way off and my argument has no merit?
quote:
Joe Brady’s offense can’t work without Joe Burrow and the best OL in CFB
I'm not expecting 2019 LSU every year.
And our OL was overrated as shite that year. Burrow was leaving the pocket routinely b/c of all the pressure they allowed, but we had a system that accepted this reality. What we're running in 2022 has "QB run" as out primary alternative, which is not the same thing.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I am going to make a longer and more detailed thread about this tomorrow
Please don’t
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:55 am to rocket31
quote:
installing is execution
they don't execute at any competent level
Oklahoma, USC, Clemson, Bama, Texas, Tennessee, Ole Miss, etc. don't execute at a competent level?
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:59 am to SlowFlowPro
Now let’s talk about the reads based on post snap pressure or simulated pressure.
I’ve been waiting-the entire time-to talk about the Front 7 and how what happens there requires additional checks and reads both pre and post.
But keep posting. Walking you further and further into dilettante territory has been humorous. It’s readily apparent you can’t help yourself. Your opinion and need to be right is far, far more important than rationality. You trust your ability to argue way more than tangible evidence that points out the obvious error in thinking and faulty assertions and supporting information.
Again though…it’s fun to watch and a humorous way to spend a Sunday morning. Keep at it.
I’ve been waiting-the entire time-to talk about the Front 7 and how what happens there requires additional checks and reads both pre and post.
But keep posting. Walking you further and further into dilettante territory has been humorous. It’s readily apparent you can’t help yourself. Your opinion and need to be right is far, far more important than rationality. You trust your ability to argue way more than tangible evidence that points out the obvious error in thinking and faulty assertions and supporting information.
Again though…it’s fun to watch and a humorous way to spend a Sunday morning. Keep at it.
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