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Message
re: What position do the class of 2010 "tweeners" end up playing?
Posted on 2/7/10 at 1:08 pm to Stagg8
Posted on 2/7/10 at 1:08 pm to Stagg8
Stagg.....
Ego - He would make a good DE or DT IMO. I think we have some adequate DT, though more size is needed. I like faster DE for the pass rush and DT that can be disruptive at the snap and against the run. So I like Ego at DT more.
Reid - Has SS written all over him. Great coverage skills and likes to hit. You move this kid to LB and he will be good, but keep him at SS and he's great. LM would be stupid to move this kid to LB.
Spencer Ware - Im disagreeing with you here. The kid can play RB. He isnt a speed back, wont ever be one. But neither was CS and he started for a few years. I think Ware has CS strength with better speed. Kid has some wiggle, doesnt just run over you. He's a complete back. A jack of all trades RB, a king of none. Plus LM loves him some big strong 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB. Loves to chew the clock. This kid is definately on that menu.
Simon - Could easily play CB or WR. Would be a really good WR, but a great CB. To have CB skills at 6'4 is a rare gift. He's an anomaly there. I say keep him at CB.
Gibson - Im going to go on a limb. Most see him on defense for some reason, but after watching his latest clips. I see RB all over this kid. He has vision, speed, moves. He's a little tall, but who knows. I could also see him in the slot based on athleticism, but it just depends how well he does the other duties at WR (block, routes, catching, etc.). He could get a look at about 5 different positions to be honest.
Maclin - I think he gets bigger and pushes for PT at the DE position. He will be a terror there. Will need to work on his leverage at that height and get his pad level low. But I could see him standing up at the DE position as well. Could also see him dropping in zone coverage from the DE position. Could do a number of different things with him too.
Ego - He would make a good DE or DT IMO. I think we have some adequate DT, though more size is needed. I like faster DE for the pass rush and DT that can be disruptive at the snap and against the run. So I like Ego at DT more.
Reid - Has SS written all over him. Great coverage skills and likes to hit. You move this kid to LB and he will be good, but keep him at SS and he's great. LM would be stupid to move this kid to LB.
Spencer Ware - Im disagreeing with you here. The kid can play RB. He isnt a speed back, wont ever be one. But neither was CS and he started for a few years. I think Ware has CS strength with better speed. Kid has some wiggle, doesnt just run over you. He's a complete back. A jack of all trades RB, a king of none. Plus LM loves him some big strong 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB. Loves to chew the clock. This kid is definately on that menu.
Simon - Could easily play CB or WR. Would be a really good WR, but a great CB. To have CB skills at 6'4 is a rare gift. He's an anomaly there. I say keep him at CB.
Gibson - Im going to go on a limb. Most see him on defense for some reason, but after watching his latest clips. I see RB all over this kid. He has vision, speed, moves. He's a little tall, but who knows. I could also see him in the slot based on athleticism, but it just depends how well he does the other duties at WR (block, routes, catching, etc.). He could get a look at about 5 different positions to be honest.
Maclin - I think he gets bigger and pushes for PT at the DE position. He will be a terror there. Will need to work on his leverage at that height and get his pad level low. But I could see him standing up at the DE position as well. Could also see him dropping in zone coverage from the DE position. Could do a number of different things with him too.
This post was edited on 2/7/10 at 1:12 pm
1
Posted on 2/8/10 at 2:01 pm to Stagg8
quote:
Well, first of all, we're assuming Simon's 6'4" is legit.
So you are assuming the entire discussion away? If he's 6'4" and equally good at CB or WR, he should stay at CB. But, then I point out that, despite there being large skill athletes (I mean, what other offensive analogy to CBs are there, except WR?) at the 6'4" and larger at the WR position, there are no comparably large CBs (Cromartie being the sole example I could find at 6'3"). THEN you imply that he's not 6'4".
BAM - you got me - you really torpedoed my whole argument right there - If he's only 6'3", then there is at least one example, Antonio Cromartie.
But what if he's only 6'2"? Or 6' even? OMG, what if I'm really 6'?
Posted on 2/8/10 at 2:40 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Even moreso, I think it's somewhat crazy to even include Ford (never been a huge Ford fan); that's how good Ware is.
You just said that it's crazy to include LSU's future feature back for the next 3-4 successful years in the same conversation with a current senior in high school that played quarterback and was recruited as an athlete.
You may not be into Michael Ford right now, but you will be in the coming months...and so will everyone else who supports LSU.
In my opinion, Michael Ford is easily our most promising back.
Posted on 2/8/10 at 2:48 pm to alange
quote:
I want to see Maclin develop as an ILB.
As do I...good call.
Posted on 2/8/10 at 2:50 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Hopefully with Gonzales here we'll finally realize the benefits of a good slot WR.
Meet Russell Shepherd!
:rimshot:
Posted on 2/8/10 at 2:58 pm to Stagg8
Spencer Ware - RB all the way
Ronnie Vinson - CB...maaaaaybe S
Tharold Simon - First spot S, second WR, third CB
Ken Adams - DE...but I really would rather see him at TE
J.C. Copeland - DT all the way
J.R. Ferguson - Promised DE
Jarrett Fobbs - WR but is a better CB imo
Sam Gibson - No freaking idea, could play just about anywhere
Nick Jacobs - TE first, OT if too big
Justin Maclin - DE first, LB if we need him there
Ronnie Vinson - CB...maaaaaybe S
Tharold Simon - First spot S, second WR, third CB
Ken Adams - DE...but I really would rather see him at TE
J.C. Copeland - DT all the way
J.R. Ferguson - Promised DE
Jarrett Fobbs - WR but is a better CB imo
Sam Gibson - No freaking idea, could play just about anywhere
Nick Jacobs - TE first, OT if too big
Justin Maclin - DE first, LB if we need him there
Posted on 2/8/10 at 7:22 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
So you are assuming the entire discussion away?
Come on Ace, you're better than this. quote:
But, then I point out that, despite there being large skill athletes (I mean, what other offensive analogy to CBs are there, except WR?) at the 6'4" and larger at the WR position, there are no comparably large CBs (Cromartie being the sole example I could find at 6'3"). THEN you imply that he's not 6'4".
The fact that you were parsing every inch when listing CBs meant that that's where you were heading with the debate. I pointed out that we're all assuming (unless there is a verified height at a combine) that his listed height is exactly correct. The NFLers you mentioned have all been measured to an 1/8 of an inch at either the NFL Combine or a Pro Day. And like I mentioned, Terrance Newman (who is now listed at 5'11") was once reported to be 6'3". I'm not trying to imply that a misrepresentation of his height changes the fact that I think the kid could play corner. I'm only saying that it needs to be stated that when you're characterizing NFLers by height (down to an inch I might add), you can't use the same liberal nature to parse inches at the high school level because these heights are often inaccurate.
quote:
But what if he's only 6'2"? Or 6' even? OMG, what if I'm really 6'?
Who cares? If you have a kid with his frame whether it be 6'0", 6'2", or 6'4" and he can play CB as aptly as WR, we both agree you play him at CB... bar none. It's a position he's played very comfortably in high school (for 3 years I believe before they moved him to safety), and it's the position that his high school coach has said he would be able to make an impact in college.
ETA: For what it's worth, I honestly think Simon is the best raw athlete in the class, and for his height (whatever that may be
), he's got excellent coordination and change of direction when the ball's in the air.This post was edited on 2/8/10 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 2/8/10 at 7:32 pm to tigerbill002
quote:
Spencer Ware - Im disagreeing with you here. The kid can play RB. He isnt a speed back, wont ever be one. But neither was CS and he started for a few years. I think Ware has CS strength with better speed. Kid has some wiggle, doesnt just run over you. He's a complete back. A jack of all trades RB, a king of none. Plus LM loves him some big strong 3 yards and a cloud of dust RB. Loves to chew the clock. This kid is definately on that menu.
Like I said, I completely expected the disagreement.
I'll be happy to see Ware hit the field at any position. I think he'll be a 230 pound wrecking ball on kick coverages next year as well. quote:
Maclin - I think he gets bigger and pushes for PT at the DE position. He will be a terror there. Will need to work on his leverage at that height and get his pad level low. But I could see him standing up at the DE position as well. Could also see him dropping in zone coverage from the DE position. Could do a number of different things with him too.
With Maclin's size and speed, it doesn't take much prognostication to see how attractive his skillset would be to a 3-4 team in that situational, rush OLB role.
This post was edited on 2/8/10 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 2/8/10 at 8:23 pm to Stagg8
quote:
Who cares? If you have a kid with his frame whether it be 6'0", 6'2", or 6'4" and he can play CB as aptly as WR, we both agree you play him at CB... bar none. It's a position he's played very comfortably in high school (for 3 years I believe before they moved him to safety), and it's the position that his high school coach has said he would be able to make an impact in college.
I was merely laughing at the direction our posts were going:
Paraphrasing
Stagg: A 6'4" kid who is equally good at CB and WR, you play him at CB.
Ace Midnight: I agree in principle, but there aren't any NFL CBs at 6'4".
Stagg: But he's not really 6'4".
Ace Midnight: You got me. Infallible logic.
No, and I agree, sometimes a guy can move from WR to CB (not necessarily with a consequent change in size) and have great success. Corey Webster is an excellent example. However, corners sometimes "grow" out of the position. Typically this is weight and/or bulk and he becomes a safety (very translatable skill set, especially from CB to FS).
However, guys rarely grow out of the WR position, unless they lose too much mobility, and then they become receiving TEs.
I think we agree, in principle. The coaches obviously think he should get a look in the secondary first. I was just amused by the exchange (of which I was a part.)
This post was edited on 2/8/10 at 8:24 pm
Posted on 2/8/10 at 8:29 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
However, guys rarely grow out of the WR position, unless they lose too much mobility, and then they become receiving TEs.
True, but he's played a lot of corner.
quote:
I think we agree, in principle.
Yep.
quote:
I was just amused by the exchange (of which I was a part.)
Understandable. Posted on 2/8/10 at 9:00 pm to Stagg8
quote:
True, but he's played a lot of corner.
And ultimately it will be his comfort level being a full-time corner, and his ability to cover receivers that will determine if he stays corner (and perhaps he will even start with the safeties), plays safety or move to WR, not the technical, measurable aspect of his height. Some guys have no neck and are larger than the height measurement indicates. Merton Hanks' neck was incredibly, almost freakishly long, so there are other factors than the raw height measurement. Right now, I have little else to go on. (I maintain that the taller he is, above 6'2", the more likely it is that he will play WR.)
This post was edited on 2/8/10 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 2/8/10 at 10:36 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
People said the same thing about Clayton when he first came out because of how physical he was. Thank god our coaches then were smart enough to play him at WR; I can only hope our current coaches make the same correct choice with Simon.
simon looks to be a bit faster than 4.71 clayton
clayton couldn't play DB b/c he wasn't fast enough
Posted on 2/9/10 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
clayton couldn't play DB b/c he wasn't fast enough
He did play some FS (and for Nick Saban, no less). However, he was a much more effective weapon on offense.
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