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Message
re: Thayer Evans Article on LSU and Randle and street agents
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:21 am to Dr Drunkenstein
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:21 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
Dr Drunkenstein
is a retard who can't comprehend or give unbiased opinion. No....that isn't a rumor, FACT!
quote:
Show me in the rules where it says what amounts are and aren't allowed?
quote:
I am still waiting on him to get back to me with those rule violations.
quote:
I'll admit, I don't have the NCAA rulebook memorized....but when USA Today says:
quote:
LSU would be guilty of breaking NCAA recruiting rules if Lyles helped steer Randle to LSU.
English motherfricker! Do you speak it??? 
0
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:27 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
a longtime provider of recruiting video services -- who counted Oregon as a client before his company was absorbed by video giant XOS Digital -- said the $25,000 payment seems high. "For $25,000, it better provide a hell of a lot," Scouting Evaluation Association founder Dick Lascola told SI.com late Thursday. "That's an exorbitant amount of money to pay for something."
This article from the Seattle Times says that guy doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground and the listing prices of every recruiting service in the country. LINK
quote:
Washington's biggest expense is $25,000 paid to Digital Sports Video (also sometimes referred to as Player Direct). On its website, DSV states that eight of 10 Pac-10 schools are clients and specifically lists Oregon, Oregon State and Arizona, and also states that "over half the Big 12" are clients, as well as schools such as Boise State and Texas Christian.
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:41 am to Dr Drunkenstein
So what we have are 3 separate activities. One is legal and being used as a cover for two illegal activities.
1. recruiting service (legal), where a company provides films, perhaps their own personal reviews of players, and the possibility of access to recruits at 7-on-7 camps.
2. Pay-For-Play (illegal), where money is funneled to a player through a recruiting service (probably for a cut).
3. Influence (illegal), where the recruiter "steers" a player to a university in exchange for payment from the university. I would assume the player is unaware of these dealings.
So, if #1 is legal, how can you prove that #2 or #3 happened if they did indeed happen? Just because Lyles is dirty, it doesn't mean that everyone that associates with him is dirty. In many instances he will be positioning himself to take advantage should an opportunity arise, but I would assume that opportunities aren't that frequent (but they are lucrative when they occur).
While OU's payment seems suspicious, how can one prove that it isn't what they say? How can you prove that it isn't for services for the coming year?
1. recruiting service (legal), where a company provides films, perhaps their own personal reviews of players, and the possibility of access to recruits at 7-on-7 camps.
2. Pay-For-Play (illegal), where money is funneled to a player through a recruiting service (probably for a cut).
3. Influence (illegal), where the recruiter "steers" a player to a university in exchange for payment from the university. I would assume the player is unaware of these dealings.
So, if #1 is legal, how can you prove that #2 or #3 happened if they did indeed happen? Just because Lyles is dirty, it doesn't mean that everyone that associates with him is dirty. In many instances he will be positioning himself to take advantage should an opportunity arise, but I would assume that opportunities aren't that frequent (but they are lucrative when they occur).
While OU's payment seems suspicious, how can one prove that it isn't what they say? How can you prove that it isn't for services for the coming year?
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:54 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
What I do have is the word of 2 Texas high school football coaches I know very well who have talked about Lyles being a sleezeball for many years.
Sleezeballs exist in Texas high schools as well. I'm not going to waste my time digging up dirt but your naive if you think everything is on the up and up in your own state.
quote:
Gilmore said Oregon's purchasing of national recruiting packages began shortly after the university ran into roadblocks attempting to recruit running back Adrian Peterson in 2003.
Peterson was the top-rated running back in the nation by all recruiting services as a senior at Palestine (Texas) High School and the Ducks, only a couple of years removed from a Fiesta Bowl victory after the 2001 season, decided to make a run at him.
That effort ended, Gilmore said, when the Palestine High School officials refused to provide game video on Peterson, telling Gilmore that the prized recruit was not leaving the state.
"Of course we all know he wound up at Oklahoma," Gilmore said.
This post was edited on 3/16/11 at 2:03 am
Posted on 3/16/11 at 2:00 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
but it is safe to say he took him out to eat a lot.
You should stick to what the quote said. He never said who paid. He said he was "introduced"....not taken out. I suggest you stick to facts/quotes. You have made yourself look enough like a horse's arse.
Posted on 3/16/11 at 9:40 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
......I'll take their word over yours.
journalists trying to stir shite?
when i think of reporters/papers who really know CFB, USA Today doesn't make the top 50 list
what is the difference in lyles steering kids to a school for benefits and a HS coach steering kids to a school for benefits? any?
Posted on 3/16/11 at 9:45 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
This is my best guess. I am convinced Oregon will get hammered and, like I said before, if LSU paid Lyles after signing day, I think LSU will get hit hard as well.
Joe Schad tweeted the invoice for Lyle's scouting services was dated 12/21/10. Nat'l Signing Day was 2/2/11......does that clear anything up?
Posted on 3/16/11 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
what is the difference in lyles steering kids to a school for benefits and a HS coach steering kids to a school for benefits? any?
Probably depends on the circumstance
If the High School coach is an alumni or donor to the school in question they may be considered a booster... although that is messy because it probably includes over 50% of high school coaches (and is unrealistic to enforce)
If the recruiting service/agent has a relationship with multiple schools then I don't think there is an issue of steering a kid to a particular school. If they/he are not just selling his tape and introduction to interested parties? That is, if he is hired by only one school to recruit a particular player to a particular school? Then I think there is an ethical issue that the NCAA needs to address (ban) if present rules do not already
Posted on 3/16/11 at 11:22 am to Dr Drunkenstein
Re-read my post and tell me what jury would convict Lache for choosing UO over his other teams he thought about attending. I believe Lache or any recruit has the right to choose which college no matter how good you think your team is.
What surprise?
Let's see UTw has a QB coaching the RB's without any success. LSU's great Crowton Offense is tanking + a successful RB coach leaves LSU to become a HC. USC has the coaches and "O" but Pete leaves and the Kiffin Gang shows up. AU decides to go in a different direction (QB P4P or other debatable reasons) and stops recruiting Lache. So there you have it Oregon was either his first or his fifth choice depending on if you think Chip Kelly orchestrated everything above to get Lache.
But just in case you still believe Lache choosing Oregon was a last minute surprise read my post below. Should I go further back to prove UO was not a johnny come lately college on Lache's list.
re: Seastrunk and Reed at Oregon right now (Posted on 11/1/09 at 12:26 a.m. to wryder1)
Oregon could be the place where both could have a lot of playing time as true freshmen. Like I've said before Oregon is a bigger player than most think, IMO.
So you think this is over my head? You can't stand toe to toe with me on this one. All you got is what someone wrote as a hack job and well at least I can stand up in a court of Law with first hand knowledge vs your inability to comprehend reading an article that has more holes than Swiss cheese. Trust me UTw did not drop Lache before Lache dropped them. So stop blaming Will. You should use your time getting rid of Mack because he gets the players he wants in Texas before anyone else and can't win the Big 12 (-2). So give me the name of each recruit Will has steered away from UTw that UTw wanted. At least that way we have the opportunity to look back and see if these reporters are telling the truth. As I explained Lache chose UO not because of Will but because UO was the best fit for Lache. At best all you can claim is that Will attaches himself to recruits hoping this will help get colleges to buy a package. This is no different than what Rival, Scout, ESPN and many more do by showing colleges that they have unlimited access to the recruit via camps and one on one reporting. As a matter of fact I have been pushing that the pay sites need to show restraint and some reporters are nothing more the an extension of the college they rep.
What surprise?
Let's see UTw has a QB coaching the RB's without any success. LSU's great Crowton Offense is tanking + a successful RB coach leaves LSU to become a HC. USC has the coaches and "O" but Pete leaves and the Kiffin Gang shows up. AU decides to go in a different direction (QB P4P or other debatable reasons) and stops recruiting Lache. So there you have it Oregon was either his first or his fifth choice depending on if you think Chip Kelly orchestrated everything above to get Lache.
But just in case you still believe Lache choosing Oregon was a last minute surprise read my post below. Should I go further back to prove UO was not a johnny come lately college on Lache's list.
re: Seastrunk and Reed at Oregon right now (Posted on 11/1/09 at 12:26 a.m. to wryder1)
Oregon could be the place where both could have a lot of playing time as true freshmen. Like I've said before Oregon is a bigger player than most think, IMO.
So you think this is over my head? You can't stand toe to toe with me on this one. All you got is what someone wrote as a hack job and well at least I can stand up in a court of Law with first hand knowledge vs your inability to comprehend reading an article that has more holes than Swiss cheese. Trust me UTw did not drop Lache before Lache dropped them. So stop blaming Will. You should use your time getting rid of Mack because he gets the players he wants in Texas before anyone else and can't win the Big 12 (-2). So give me the name of each recruit Will has steered away from UTw that UTw wanted. At least that way we have the opportunity to look back and see if these reporters are telling the truth. As I explained Lache chose UO not because of Will but because UO was the best fit for Lache. At best all you can claim is that Will attaches himself to recruits hoping this will help get colleges to buy a package. This is no different than what Rival, Scout, ESPN and many more do by showing colleges that they have unlimited access to the recruit via camps and one on one reporting. As a matter of fact I have been pushing that the pay sites need to show restraint and some reporters are nothing more the an extension of the college they rep.
This post was edited on 3/16/11 at 11:36 am
Posted on 3/16/11 at 11:40 am to Born to be a Tiger
quote:
Born to be a Tiger
aaannnndddd boom goes the dynamite
Posted on 3/16/11 at 11:50 am to Born to be a Tiger
quote:
UTw did not drop Lache before Lache dropped them.
I find it hard to believe UT stopped recruiting him either. If Lache had picked up a phone and expressed interest I think they would have signed him in a second... I just don't remember many if any examples of (even major) schools turning down 5 star prospects
quote:
So give me the name of each recruit Will has steered away from UTw that UTw wanted.
This would be interesting. Although pretty hard to get a honest accounting of - because I doubt most Texas fans will admit they get turned down or dropped from consideration for legitimate reasons
Not to pick on just Texas fans here. I think this is a common behavior/assumption from fanbases. I know a lot of LSU fans have strong assumptions or suspicions about recruits that left Louisiana in spite of LSU offers.
quote:
At best all you can claim is that Will attaches himself to recruits hoping this will help get colleges to buy a package. This is no different than what Rival, Scout, ESPN and many more do by showing colleges that they have unlimited access to the recruit via camps and one on one reporting. As a matter of fact I have been pushing that the pay sites need to show restraint and some reporters are nothing more the an extension of the college they rep.
As long as Will is selling his product to more than one buyer (university) I think this is true.
There is an issue RE: reporters and the schools they cover. It often becomes clear that the reporters are doing their damnedest to push a kid to their school of interest (hard to avoid when they are beholden to the rivals school they cover)
Posted on 3/16/11 at 12:34 pm to molsusports
Quote:
There is an issue RE: reporters and the schools they cover. It often becomes clear that the reporters are doing their damnedest to push a kid to their school of interest (hard to avoid when they are beholden to the rivals school they cover)
Based off of what I saw this is the real problem. Recruits believe what these reporters tell them. Most of the conversation is about the kid but the reporter gets his jabs in about other colleges and since the reporter has control of the recorder during a phone conversation then you can guess when it is off. It's like when the video recorder in a police car just happens to be turned off when they (policeman or policewoman) are breaking the law. I would gladly serve on a committee about reporter/scout abuse if the NCAA would ask.
There is an issue RE: reporters and the schools they cover. It often becomes clear that the reporters are doing their damnedest to push a kid to their school of interest (hard to avoid when they are beholden to the rivals school they cover)
Based off of what I saw this is the real problem. Recruits believe what these reporters tell them. Most of the conversation is about the kid but the reporter gets his jabs in about other colleges and since the reporter has control of the recorder during a phone conversation then you can guess when it is off. It's like when the video recorder in a police car just happens to be turned off when they (policeman or policewoman) are breaking the law. I would gladly serve on a committee about reporter/scout abuse if the NCAA would ask.
Posted on 3/16/11 at 12:58 pm to molsusports
quote:
English motherfricker! Do you speak it???
You asked for specifics of what rules were broken. I have provided multiple links which answered your question and reference a "Bylaw 13". I just don't know what else you want.
quote:
Washington's biggest expense is $25,000 paid to Digital Sports Video (also sometimes referred to as Player Direct).
DSV has been around for years, has many employees and has a proven track record or providing legit recruiting services across many states. CSS is a newly created one man company (Lyles) who never evaluates/trains/works with players outside of Texas BUT who Oregon claims to have bought videos from covering athletes in multiple states (although the have yet to produce the videos they spent 25K on). This is the ultimate example of Apples & Oranges.
quote:
So, if #1 is legal, how can you prove that #2 or #3 happened if they did indeed happen? Just because Lyles is dirty, it doesn't mean that everyone that associates with him is dirty.
Oregon can't/won't produce the vidoes that were part of the 25K package from Lyles......he NCAA may not need much more evidence than that.
quote:
Sleezeballs exist in Texas high schools as well. I'm not going to waste my time digging up dirt but your naive if you think everything is on the up and up in your own state
You are like a pissed off woman. You mind is inventing avenues to this discussion that don't exist. I have never said everything is on the up and up in the state of Texas.
quote:
You should stick to what the quote said. He never said who paid.
Riiiiiiiiight......maybe, just maybe, Randle bought Lyles all of those meals from eating at every decent restaurant in Baton Rouge. That is probably what the NCAA is investigating, they want to make sure student athletes aren't giving improper benefits to street agents. Good God, how fricking stupid can you be.
quote:
what is the difference in lyles steering kids to a school for benefits and a HS coach steering kids to a school for benefits?
We know what Lyles got, the payments are documented, but the 'benefits' aspect of your high school coach scenario is undefined so how could anyone answer that?
quote:
Joe Schad tweeted the invoice for Lyle's scouting services was dated 12/21/10. Nat'l Signing Day was 2/2/11......does that clear anything up?
That helps out LSU's cause a lot. I guess it isn't everything or else......why did the NCAA still send investigators to talk to Randle specifically about Lyles if they knew when the invoice was paid?
quote:
But just in case you still believe Lache choosing Oregon was a last minute surprise read my post below. Should I go further back to prove UO was not a johnny come lately college on Lache's list.
I never said Oregon was a 'johnny come lately' to the process. I never said it was a last minute surprise. Just like the other guy, you are crafting these huge posts based on arguments and points that are nowhere to be found in this thread but are bouncing around in your head in an attempt to defend doing business with a known street agent.
quote:
rust me UTw did not drop Lache before Lache dropped them.
You are 100% wrong on this. Texas has a policy where they do not deal with kids represented by Lyles. Zero tolerance. Applewhite has publicly called him a notorious street agent. Reasonable people can disagree on what they think the outcome of all of this will be but you are wrong on this point. Once the relationship between Lyles & Lache was known, Texas bugged out while Lache was still interested.
quote:
I find it hard to believe UT stopped recruiting him either. If Lache had picked up a phone and expressed interest I think they would have signed him in a second... I just don't remember many if any examples of (even major) schools turning down 5 star prospects
Texas will not deal with a kid Will Lyles is known to represent. They have missed out on a lot of elite recruits recently because of this. The #s speak for themselves along with the public comments about Lyles from the Texas coaching staff.
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:08 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
FWIW I'm really not sure why you think the timeline of a payment is the gold standard for determining wrongdoing
By your logic it helps LSU a lot (which I guess I shouldn't complain about)... but the issue in my mind is more about whether or not these guys are potential bag men... or are being used as bag men to pay kids
If you pay them up front or after the national signing day I'm not sure why that makes an ethical difference. In my mind it doesn't
Primary question RE: Oregon. Did Oregon funnel money through an intermediary to get it to a recruit? And perhaps equally importantly IMO - are the agents in question only beholden to one kid during the recruiting process?
If a recruiting service or agent is working for only one school to help them recruit a kid then I think that raises very different questions... compared to if they are serving as an intermediary between the kid and any interested school
By your logic it helps LSU a lot (which I guess I shouldn't complain about)... but the issue in my mind is more about whether or not these guys are potential bag men... or are being used as bag men to pay kids
If you pay them up front or after the national signing day I'm not sure why that makes an ethical difference. In my mind it doesn't
Primary question RE: Oregon. Did Oregon funnel money through an intermediary to get it to a recruit? And perhaps equally importantly IMO - are the agents in question only beholden to one kid during the recruiting process?
If a recruiting service or agent is working for only one school to help them recruit a kid then I think that raises very different questions... compared to if they are serving as an intermediary between the kid and any interested school
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:16 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
Quote:
You are 100% wrong on this. Texas has a policy where they do not deal with kids represented by Lyles. Zero tolerance. Applewhite has publicly called him a notorious street agent. Reasonable people can disagree on what they think the outcome of all of this will be but you are wrong on this point. Once the relationship between Lyles & Lache was known, Texas bugged out while Lache was still interested.
So why did Major keep calling Lache and keep sending messages to Lache even a year after the so called Will visit to UTw? You need to be careful about absolutes when getting your information second hand. UTw coaches knew Lache would be a hard pull from the day Mack orchestrated the meeting with Lache. Mack even had Lache wear his LSU shirt inside out while on uTw campus. Mack and company has been blaming everyone except the fact that Lache saw through this plan to control his recruiting through asst high school coaches. Now be gone before you drawn in a rain storm because you nose is so high.
You are 100% wrong on this. Texas has a policy where they do not deal with kids represented by Lyles. Zero tolerance. Applewhite has publicly called him a notorious street agent. Reasonable people can disagree on what they think the outcome of all of this will be but you are wrong on this point. Once the relationship between Lyles & Lache was known, Texas bugged out while Lache was still interested.
So why did Major keep calling Lache and keep sending messages to Lache even a year after the so called Will visit to UTw? You need to be careful about absolutes when getting your information second hand. UTw coaches knew Lache would be a hard pull from the day Mack orchestrated the meeting with Lache. Mack even had Lache wear his LSU shirt inside out while on uTw campus. Mack and company has been blaming everyone except the fact that Lache saw through this plan to control his recruiting through asst high school coaches. Now be gone before you drawn in a rain storm because you nose is so high.
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:17 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
Thayer Evans is a joke and a hack
How can anyone take this guy serious?
Hes been doing this FOR YEARS; Texas, Auburn, and now this Lyles thing.
Guy has been hell bent on breaking some gigantic cheating scandal since he was at the Times.
How can anyone take this guy serious?
Hes been doing this FOR YEARS; Texas, Auburn, and now this Lyles thing.
Guy has been hell bent on breaking some gigantic cheating scandal since he was at the Times.
This post was edited on 3/16/11 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:18 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
CSS is a newly created one man company (Lyles) who never evaluates/trains/works with players outside of Texas BUT who Oregon claims to have bought videos from covering athletes in multiple states (although the have yet to produce the videos they spent 25K on).
affiliate agreements can easily solve this...
quote:
Oregon can't/won't produce the vidoes that were part of the 25K package from Lyles......he NCAA may not need much more evidence than that.
it's not a regulated market, technically they could pay him 25K for a video of a kid jumping up and down on a pogo stick
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:21 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
You asked for specifics of what rules were broken. I have provided multiple links which answered your question and reference a "Bylaw 13". I just don't know what else you want.
Wow...you are from Texas.
quote:
Show me in the rules where it says what amounts are and aren't allowed?
This is specifically what was asked for and even put in the post to show you......AGAIN. Yet somehow you don't see it and give me the run around.
Even what you did show me is what rule could possibly be broken, not what has be broken. As of now nothing has been broken and there isn't a link you can give us that says otherwise. I don't give a frick about what I already know. You keep repeating it for a reason. You have nothing else to contribute except to flame the board.
quote:
Washington's biggest expense is $25,000 paid to Digital Sports Video (also sometimes referred to as Player Direct).
DSV has been around for years, has many employees and has a proven track record or providing legit recruiting services across many states. CSS is a newly created one man company (Lyles) who never evaluates/trains/works with players outside of Texas BUT who Oregon claims to have bought videos from covering athletes in multiple states (although the have yet to produce the videos they spent 25K on). This is the ultimate example of Apples & Oranges.
Your issue with it was the amount.
quote:
Oregon pays him about 5 times what a normal recruiting service gets
Go ahead and work aroud that as well though. I don't care what you think of his business and how he operates. He has been approved by many compliance departments. Do I think it's shady, probably but until you show me the almighty Texas program is 100% clean no one will care how much you want to push this.
quote:
English motherfricker! Do you speak it???
Clearly not.....
quote:
You are like a pissed off woman. You mind is inventing avenues to this discussion that don't exist. I have never said everything is on the up and up in the state of Texas.
The only bitch in this thread is you. Your butthurt just like Applewhite. Texas is pissed they lost the Holiday bowl (applewhite was there
) to Oregon and are now losing RB's to them. quote:
Riiiiiiiiight......maybe, just maybe, Randle bought Lyles all of those meals from eating at every decent restaurant in Baton Rouge. That is probably what the NCAA is investigating, they want to make sure student athletes aren't giving improper benefits to street agents. Good God, how fricking stupid can you be.
The point is.....YOU are on an LSU recruiting board saying things that no one knows anything about for sure. It is all speculation on what has happened. But no....the smart Texas guy who knows coaches (could be dirty) and says this is what's going on so we all have to just accept it....on OUR board. GFY
quote:
I never said it was a last minute surprise. Just like the other guy, you are crafting these huge posts based on arguments and points that are nowhere to be found in this thread
quote:
right after a prized recruit signs with Oregon in a surprise move
You didn't say last minute but you did say surprise.
This post was edited on 3/16/11 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:22 pm to ForeLSU
wasn't stewie supposed to post his expose today?
Posted on 3/16/11 at 1:30 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
Oregon can't/won't produce the vidoes that were part of the 25K package from Lyles......he NCAA may not need much more evidence than that.
it's not a regulated market, technically they could pay him 25K for a video of a kid jumping up and down on a pogo stick
I'm somewhere in between on this
You do IMO have to show some value or some expense incurred by the middle man (recruiting service or agent). That would ideally be something like tapes available to any interested school.
But I am struggling with the question of what is appropriate or not for other expenses. As long as the agent is willing to make access available to more than one school the access and information they make available seems very similar to what people like the media beat writers do when they cover a high profile recruit (by billing their subscribers they are covering their expenses for traveling and other expenses).
Now if the access offered is unique (for example the recruiting service/agent has been paid by a school to provide exclusive access) then I would think there should be much more scrutiny on the expenses paid and interaction between recruiting service/agent and recruit.
Because that relationship seems very similar at best to another coach doing recruiting... and at worst like a bag man to compensate the player under the table
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