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Need Some New Metrics for Adjusted Value of Recruiting Classes

Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:36 pm
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
105799 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:36 pm
I'm not statistician but it would be interesting if someone came up with a way to create adjusted value of recruiting rankings based on certain variables like your schedule and the relative recruiting class rankings of your conference opponents.

For instance if Alabama has the #1 recruiting class in the nation, and Texas has the #8 class in the nation. There are 6 other teams in the top 12 from SEC schools but only one other big 12 team in the top 15, so the relative rankings of Bama's class would be lower than Texas' because texas' class affords them a larger advantage over their most frequent opponents. Something like that. Again, I'm not a stats guy, but it would be interesting to see if some sort of sabermatricians could come up with something like that.
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
94372 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:40 pm to
55% - 75%
Posted by Lee Chatelain
I love the OT!
Member since Oct 2008
11537 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

Tiger Ryno


You're my favorite poster. You always bring it, unlike, Prominentwon.
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
105799 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:43 pm to
makes sense.
Posted by saint tiger225
San Diego
Member since Jan 2011
41700 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 3:52 pm to
Awwwwweeeesssooommmmeee
Posted by TxTiger82
Member since Sep 2004
34323 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

Something like that. Again, I'm not a stats guy, but it would be interesting to see if some sort of sabermatricians could come up with something like that.


It wouldn't be that difficult. All you have to do is

1) Create a "conference" variable for each team or recruit, whichever is your unit of analysis.

2) Filter by that variable.

3) Run t-tests and anovas with the rivals ratings to compare the means of all the teams in a particular conference. A significant difference would indicate "gaps" in the rankings. So, speaking strictly hypothetically of course, you could have two or three teams at the top (with no statistical difference between them) then a gap, the another tier, and so on.

Note: You could also do the same thing by region. For example, if you wanted to see who "won" the Southeast, you would probably have to include Florida State.
Posted by TxTiger82
Member since Sep 2004
34323 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 4:10 pm to
If you wanted to take the analysis further than that, it gets a little fuzzy for me.

I think what you are saying is that you would like to compare the relative impact of a particular class IN ITS REGION OR CONFERENCE to the relative impact of another team across the country in a different region or conference.

I think that is where it gets tricky, because in the end you have to compare things that aren't equal, and most statistics would assume that they were.

You could attempt to use a system of weighting, I suppose, but that necessarily involves bias.

One thing you could do is to look at each team within its own group, to see if the points accumulated represent a statistically significant proportion of the entire pool of players in that conference or region.

That would be affected by the number of good teams, for instance, so Bama's "value" would be lower than "Texas'".

But you still couldn't compare these recruiting classes directly to each other without running into issues.
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
105799 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 4:19 pm to
i hear you, obviously it would never be an exact science it would have to be tweaked as history would show us things in the formula that need be adjusted.

Perhaps this could take into account a kind of "VORP"-esque rating where you look at positions within the classes and decide based on some standard evaluation how much better one linebacking corp is over another school's class, with weighting toward top players, etc...
Posted by LSU82BILL
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Member since Sep 2006
10635 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 4:30 pm to
I can't believe th overanalysis of ranking these classes. There are way too many variables involved. These kids are given stars based on physical attributes and how they fare against HS competition. There is absolutely no way to determine how their physical attributes will change in those crucial years between 17 and 22 and how well these kids will adjust to D-1 competition. But they take all of these "stars" for 25 kids and try to figure out who recruited better than who? What I would love to see is how they rank 4 years later.
Posted by TxTiger82
Member since Sep 2004
34323 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 5:25 pm to
I think the record shows that they "hit" more often than they "miss" with the four and five stars, especially the five stars.

Do some bust? Yeah. Do some three stars end up being better than some five stars? Yeah, that happens sometimes.

But on average, the star ratings are pretty good indicators.
Posted by NWAustinTigers
Austin, TX
Member since Oct 2004
441 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 5:52 pm to
I'll tell you the answer about this year's class in 4 years
Posted by UVALAW2014
Member since Jan 2011
30 posts
Posted on 2/1/11 at 6:15 pm to
So if you play a crappy schedule, your class ranking goes up? Counterintuitive.
Posted by LSU82BILL
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Member since Sep 2006
10635 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 7:06 am to
quote:

I think the record shows that they "hit" more often than they "miss" with the four and five stars, especially the five stars.


TxTiger:

From our 2007 class we had (2) 5-Star players 9 Chad Jones and Terrence Tolliver. Both solid players at the college level but arguably underacheivers.....no more productive than 4-star players like Barksdale, Benton, Blackwell, Brooks, Dworaczyck, Francois, T-Bob or (on occasion) Jarrett Lee.

Even scarier is the list of 4-star signees that never made it,...Kentravis Aubrey, Shomari Clemons, Jordan Corbin, Sidell Corley, Jarvis Jones, Phelon Jones, Ernest McCoy and John Williams. That's a shitload of 4-star BUSTS. And IMO, from that 2007 signing class, 4-star players Ridley and Nevis were more productive than 5-star players Chad Jones and Terrence Tolliver.



This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 7:07 am
Posted by LSU GrandDad
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
21564 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 8:19 am to
quote:

can't believe th overanalysis of ranking these classes




yea, and now we have "socialism" injected in the guise of mathematics. adjust the statistical ratings based on competition. in other words, bring up the lower and bring down the higher based on the level of competition. this is a perfect example of why statisticians are in a staff position in companies as oppossed to executive management. they love playing with their numbers don't they?
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
105799 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 8:51 am to
You are too dumb to get the point of sabermetrics. You probably still think Home runs rbi and batting average are the best way to evaluate hitters
Posted by GeauxGus
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
5219 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:14 am to
...huh? ... say, wha ? ..
Posted by GeauxGus
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
5219 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:17 am to
...Hey GrandDad - you prolly see "socialism" behind every door, doncha? ,,,c'mon, admit it ..
Posted by LSU82BILL
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Member since Sep 2006
10635 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:35 am to
quote:

You are too dumb to get the point of sabermetrics. You probably still think Home runs rbi and batting average are the best way to evaluate hitters


Are you too dumb to understand that how a player or how a class is ranked BEFORE they ever set foot on a D-1 football field is already overanalyzed and now you have some hair brain scheme to complicate it further. As for how scouts evaluate a hitter's ability, I could go on for days about how much conjecture goes into that and rant for weeks about the highly drafted prospects that never panned out and the overlooked players that went late in the draft or undrafted that went on to long productive major league careers.
Posted by ccomeaux
LA
Member since Jan 2010
8184 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:39 am to

Variable to multiply player value/ranking points based on team need.
I.e. More points for signing a 5 star player to a position being vacated by a Starter. We'd get points for La'El and Freak.

Posted by LSU82BILL
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Member since Sep 2006
10635 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:41 am to
quote:

Variable to multiply player value/ranking points based on team need. I.e. More points for signing a 5 star player to a position being vacated by a Starter. We'd get points for La'El and Freak.


......makes more sense,.....but the only ranking I care about is how that signing class translates to wins on the field over the next 3-4 years. Everything thing else is overanalyzed bullshite.
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