re: Remove

She was fine for another full, but I’m sure we had a 1.5 sitting on the bench chase style.

ETA: do we know if garret is recruiting right now? His Twitter is leaning toward yes and if so I wonder who.

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I really love this team and have been an LSU fan since I first started following NCAA. The girls are amazing, they are doing their best, and the team dynamic seems very good (from an outsider's perspective). But I agree that I am not very confident about the team's prospects. Too many issues have been raised over the years and not fixed, whether it is not giving different athletes a chance out, failure to adjust skills/routine composition. There is too much of sticking with the same things even if they are not really working. I don't really see us improving beyond, say, a 197.3 NQS, which is not good enough when the top teams will be closer to or even past 198.

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Honestly, I have no faith that any changes will be made in either lineups or routine construction. I mean, if history is any indication, Jay will just keep everything as is unless there are injuries. At this point I’m just going to try and enjoy going to the meets and hoping for a good showing. It seems we set ourselves up for disappointment when we talk about changes we’d like to see, or what we should see by post season, because those things rarely happen. I’ll always be a fan and hope for the best for the girls.

I can understand your need to know why people question the decision making from the LSU coaches on this board. Some of US are parents of former Elite Gymnasts and know the inner workings of routine construction and keep up with the code of points and changes each year. Some are coaches, some former gymnasts and some are avid fans that understand routine construction and what is needed for success. It is obvious that something must give for LSU to work its way back to the top as a power team . It hasn't been in our favor for the past few years due to a number of issues. Several have been addressed on this board.

We have had injured recruits coming in for the past three years which cripples our depth. Beam has been our nemesis whether it be mental, routine construction, poor rotating leaps, splits that aren't 180 and simply the lack of true beamers.We have always been known for our floor power but that has changed over the past couple of years.
Our realization of what needs to be done for change is recognized by the Gymnastics Community not just us. These are quotes from Social media that show others know we have issues.

QUOTE: “Also rewatching and wow the quality of floor choreo in this meet was….well, TERRIBLE. I don’t think I’d seen de Jong’s routine to the friends theme, it honestly sounded like floor music samples that we would get to listen to back in the early 2000s from floor music express lmao. LSUs is also NOT my favorite. Quite a contrast from Utah vs UCLA and I don’t even really like Utah’s this year either but they are head and shoulders above these”.
“LSU beam is still just dragging them down. Scoring was pretty generous because just about everybody other than Haleigh had NON 180 split positions. Not really sure how they got to 9.9 for Aleah either given that the check on her front aerial should have been 0.1 alone lol. But it was generally loose scoring overall I don’t think it favored either team necessarily.”

The posters on this board are avid fans of LSU Gymnastics and know what a power program it can be with some changes that must be made to preserve the legacy handed down over the years. This is why so many share their thoughts on what could help to boost our standing. The Road to Nationals Standings show how teams are evolving in other conferences leaving the SEC trailing in the bottom of the top 10 with the exception of Florida and Auburn at this point of the season. We have no control over the coaching at LSU but definitely know what can be done to improve in areas.

double post. delete.

First, off, it is always good when more people are interested in gymnastics. I will agree with another poster that many/most of the people on this board are very well-informed about gymnastics, myself included. I am not a former gymnast or coach, but I love the sport and have followed both NCAA and elite intensely for about the last 8 years. I am knowledgeable about both the NCAA and elite code. In addition, I am knowledgeable about the environment of NCAA, especially (overscoring of certain teams, the SUni-factor, the general inconsistency of scoring). None of these things are new (I mean Suni is new, but the overscoring of one very high profile gymnast bleeding over to the rest of the team, isn't).

To a few of your points:

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You said a lot here but let me just break it down more simple for you. The majority of posters on this board do not think Jay is a good coach. And I dont know why. The surge that turned LSU into a gymnastics school power, Jay has been a part of. Yes DD Breaux was the head coach for the majority of it but she was here forever and we were not the power until Jay came along. Also look at what has happened to UGA gymnastics since he left? I get it, the last couple of years have failed to meet expectations but those were some strange years with covid and everything.

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So, and no slight to you, but this shows just how recently you have been following NCAA. So, what happened when Jay took over at UGA is that they had a precipitous decline in the three years after Suzanne left. Now, Durante and Kupets haven't fared better, but one of the reasons the posters on this board are so worried is because we want to avoid what has happened when Jay was previously a head coach - that he took a truly top tier team into the duldrums. That is what we are seeing happening before our eyes - and it is eerily similar to what happened at Georgia, in my opinion.

In addition, I don't think anyone doesn't realize the huge effect Jay has had on recruiting and what a great team he was with DD. It seemed that she couldn't get them there on her own (though admittedly that was before my time of following), and he was able to increase recruitment and bring the right ingredient to take them almost all the way to the top. However, I think what people have said on this board is that perhaps he is better suited to being an assistant rather than being a head coach, based on what happened at Georgia and what is happening here now.

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As far as critiquing routines and such, everyone has a right to do that. And this really wouldn't even be a good board if none of that was going on. But lets be honest, MOST posters dont know what they are talking about and a lot of it is just Sunday quarterbacking. Been reading on here a lot lately about how Kai's switch leap should be taken out but no one has said that they cant take it out because she doesnt meet the requirements of the routine. I had to find that out somewhere else

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As to this point, I think the frustration here is that there are many other variations of routines that don't require rotating leaps of any sort, and generally, to get those routines you train and get more comfortable with additional acro, for example. Or train those leaps so hard they can be hit. I think one of the things that is true about this level of gymnast (though, a gymnast or a coach would have more knowledge than me) is that they have a larger number of skills in the repertoire than those which they compete. And, if, as in the last few years, we can't get people who are comfortable with their routines/the routines aren't scoring well - then it is on the coaches to explore those options. Maybe the coaches are exploring those options - but, based on what we do know, and how they have continued to score and really regress over the three-four years (really after Finnegan/Priessman/Kelley), it doesn't seem so.

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I disagree with the Gymnastics Community about UTAH, they are not that much better than us and most problems LSU is having right now you could say that about any teams sans Oklahoma and Florida.

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Utah is better than us this year, unfortunately - and most of the reason why that is beam (the other part being general consistency across all apparatuses). I won't say they are that much better than us - but I think 8 times out of 10 at least, they would beat us this year.

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I dont like how Oklahoma does vanilla routines and gets rewarded with championships for it.

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I don't like it either, but they win. And this is another point we have all had about coaching; its time to tone down the difficulty so we can increase scores. I hate that its all the same and vanilla, but, if judges are rewarding it, then we have to get with the program. And THAT is a true coaching decision (I'll also say that DD was overly attached to difficulty so this is something that has predated Jay).

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Anyways, I may be proven wrong about Jay but we will not know though that until the end of the year or years(not enough sample size IMO). Which I will say its kind of funny how up in arms everyone gets early and in the middle of the season when all that matters is the postseason.

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And finally - I am glad that you have a small enough sample size to still believe in Jay. I wish that I did. And you're right, all that matters is the post-season really. But as DD was famous for saying, "Consistency wins championships" and I think the problem most of the posters here have is that there is absolutely no consistency with this team and, more to the point, there really hasn't been since Jay took over (of course understanding COVID, etc. - but last year and this year, things have mostly been normal).

Edit for typos

thanks for the response LSUgymfan. Its obvious that you are knowledgeable but that doesnt mean all the other posters are. lol.

I will respond to a few of your points as well.

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So, and no slight to you, but this shows just how recently you have been following NCAA. So, what happened when Jay took over at UGA is that they had a precipitous decline in the three years after Suzanne left. Now, Durante and Kupets haven't fared better, but one of the reasons the posters on this board are so worried is because we want to avoid what has happened when Jay was previously a head coach - that he took a truly top tier team into the duldrums. That is what we are seeing happening before our eyes - and it is eerily similar to what happened at Georgia, in my opinion.

In addition, I don't think anyone doesn't realize the huge effect Jay has had on recruiting and what a great team he was with DD. It seemed that she couldn't get them there on her own (though admittedly that was before my time of following), and he was able to increase recruitment and bring the right ingredient to take them almost all the way to the top. However, I think what people have said on this board is that perhaps he is better suited to being an assistant rather than being a head coach, based on what happened at Georgia and what is happening here now.

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This is a fair opinion and you may be right. My biggest thing is that it too early to tell. And one huge plus about Jay that me and you agree on is that he is an excellent recruiter. Again, I am new to the sport but Id imagine its like all sports that recruiting is the lifeblood of your program. You can have all the coaching you want but if you dont have the talent than it dont mean much. Probably why DD wasnt that as successful until Jay got there. Its starting to seem like they were the perfect combination. I worry about who we would bring in if we were to can Jay. Like, who are the great coaches out there? This goes across all sports with LSU fans but everyone is so quick to get rid of someone but no one has a better alternative thats realistic.

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As to this point, I think the frustration here is that there are many other variations of routines that don't require rotating leaps of any sort, and generally, to get those routines you train and get more comfortable with additional acro, for example. Or train those leaps so hard they can be hit. I think one of the things that is true about this level of gymnast (though, a gymnast or a coach would have more knowledge than me) is that they have a larger number of skills in the repertoire than those which they compete. And, if, as in the last few years, we can't get people who are comfortable with their routines/the routines aren't scoring well - then it is on the coaches to explore those options. Maybe the coaches are exploring those options - but, based on what we do know, and how they have continued to score and really regress over the three-four years (really after Finnegan/Priessman/Kelley), it doesn't seem so.

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I think everyone focuses on the routine construction but what is missed is the mental part of it. Kai is struggling with her leaps, there is no doubt about it. But I think her injury has a lot to do with why her routine is constructed like this in the first place. And I feel like she hits this in practice all the time but obviously for some reason its not translating in the meets. But my guess it would be some mental issue. Then throw in the fact that she is the LEADER of this team. They need her to set the tone. A lot of factors here that are not discussed. If she finds the confidence it could be a completely different story.

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Utah is better than us this year, unfortunately - and most of the reason why that is beam (the other part being general consistency across all apparatuses). I won't say they are that much better than us - but I think 8 times out of 10 at least, they would beat us this year.

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Maybe this version of LSU now but that could look completely different by the time postseason comes around.

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I don't like it either, but they win. And this is another point we have all had about coaching; its time to tone down the difficulty so we can increase scores. I hate that its all the same and vanilla, but, if judges are rewarding it, then we have to get with the program. And THAT is a true coaching decision (I'll also say that DD was overly attached to difficulty so this is something that has predated Jay).

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Maybe but now as a fan of this is sport it needs to change(obviously very unrealistic right now). Lets say everyone ends up adopting this model? Well its not really an advantage anymore is it? And then the product suffers. Then you lose fans.

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And finally - I am glad that you have a small enough sample size to still believe in Jay. I wish that I did. And you're right, all that matters is the post-season really. But as DD was famous for saying, "Consistency wins championships" and I think the problem most of the posters here have is that there is absolutely no consistency with this team and, more to the point, there really hasn't been since Jay took over (of course understanding COVID, etc. - but last year and this year, things have mostly been normal).

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Still think this is what it all boils down. Some people believe in Jay(me) and some people dont(you). And thats ok because like we agree on, he will be judged on what he does in the postseason. If the team continues to not meet expectation then that will ultimately fall on him. Last year there was still some strange things going on. I think two meets were cancelled? Which was crucial for the development.

I liked the discussion that’s going on. A lot to take in but I agree with lsutiger in regards to Jay and the trajectory of the program. I’m not a coach or a judge. I have been an avid fan of the sport since 1998 and graduated with family of DD Breaux. That is over 20 years ago. My family and I used to get free tickets out of the advocate and when DD used to be basically giving out tickets in Winn Dixie parking lot on Burbank and Lee Drive. Not knowing anything about gymnastics it was exciting to see flipping and twisting in person. A totally different perspective than just watching it on tv. Then u develop a passion for the sport along with the same people who love lsu football or their favorite nfl team or mlb team. I graduated with someone close to the team and from Baton Rouge. I say that to say this. Not knowing why barely 1000 people in the stands and LSU at the time it was a fight mostly with Florida to try and get 3rd at a sec championship meet. We had good athletes but Bama and Georgia had the better athletes. Then I would question why we were scoring less than the other team across mats. Thats when fox sports and the occasional ESPN tape delayed meets would air with KJC and whoever was with her before Bart came along. I used to think she hated LSU because it seemed she always knit picked what the girls where doing. I then became a super fan and started to educate my self on the code and would watch elite to see more difficult skills being done. College gymnastics was different and comments like form would always come before difficulty . So understanding tuck vs pike vs laid out became second nature to me. Now we have meters and graphs showing what’s a proper split or handstand . We didn’t have that 15 years ago. I say all that to say fans, parents , former gymnast etc can be critical but supports the program. That’s sports in general. Yes it’s a pattern that Jay takes over a program in great shape . Georgia won 5 championships in a row for him to not make a super six and miss nationals for the first time for a Georgia team in over 30 years. We finished 2nd technically 4 years between 2014-2019. When DD missed nationals in 2011 she made a change and brought on a great recruiter and assistant coach in Jay. I will always support LSU sports especially the gymnastics program. I will also criticize some decisions or the lack of decisions being made. We talk about Oklahoma but KJ and that staff has a formula that works. She doesn’t have to recruit the elites and beat up national team members to be successful in college. Look at Florida with all the talent on paper and only have won 1 sec title since 2016. Look at our women’s basketball coach. Kim knows how to win and get the best out of her athletes . That is missing with Jay and this staff. Assistant coaches don’t always translate to good head-coaches. So when the same thing happens In the postseason in 2021 and 2022, I’m sorry it’s only natural to be concerned for our program. not to make nationals with the roster, head coach and assistants who were great gymnast is a direct reflection of the staff in place. I just won’t make excuses for covid or injuries . That’s the sport and the world had to deal with covid.

I may have mixed y’all up. Sorry

Doesn’t KJ and Bryce train a double?

I would just like to see livvy on bars and Bryce back on beam. Oh and chase hit her floor. That’s it, that’s all my expectations.