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re: spray foam in attic

Posted on 7/18/23 at 10:46 pm to
Posted by Turnblad85
Member since Sep 2022
3141 posts
Posted on 7/18/23 at 10:46 pm to
I thought GAF also allowed or partially allowed foamed decking?

Not that it would matter to me to be concerned about a roofing warranty. If the spray foam didn't disqualify me from a warranty claim, the fact it was installed on Arbor day or something would.

Though personally I probably wouldn't foam a roof that wasn't designed for it. Water leaking undetected would keep me awake at night. People getting it done with the ever popular complex roof lines might regret it bigly in a few years. A vaulted ceiling + leak prone roof could be a disaster if structural rafters have to be replaced.
Posted by atom1505
Member since Aug 2016
284 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 8:58 am to
I don't care about my shingle warranty. I'm more concerned with whether or not it is necessary to remove the existing blown in insulation in the attic.
Posted by greenbean
USAF Retired - 31 years
Member since Feb 2019
5711 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 9:32 am to
quote:

They have run from $7000 to around $9000 without removal of existing insulation. My house has a high pitch roof as well and my upstairs area is about 800sqft living, but it's only 1.5 stories so the attic floor is also the downstairs ceiling in a lot of places. I'm not sure what my attic square footage is.




I'm sure you've already considered this, but may not want outlay that much expense unless this is your forever home.
Posted by atom1505
Member since Aug 2016
284 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 9:33 am to
I've thought through that end. It's not my "forever" home, but it's a custom build and I'll be here for at least the next 10-12 years.
Posted by lsujro
north of the wall
Member since Jul 2007
4025 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:07 am to
quote:

your situation sounds exactly like mine with the bonus room


same here. and the windows on bonus room face west. how much attic is there above your bonus room? i have a walk out from the room with a little ladder to climb to area over the bonus. it dosn't look like more than about 2-3 feet of space up there. the thought of shimmying around up there trying to staple radiant barrier sounds terrible
Posted by greenbean
USAF Retired - 31 years
Member since Feb 2019
5711 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:36 am to
quote:

I've thought through that end. It's not my "forever" home, but it's a custom build and I'll be here for at least the next 10-12 years.




On a cost analysis that would be a close one. If you spent $10k upfront and lowered your energy cost by $1500/year you'd get your money back in 10 years, but it'd probably not increase the sale value much when you move. Also it may reduce wear/tear on HVAC possibly saving you from replacing a unit before you move.

I nerd out on stuff like this. There is no right or wrong answer.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 11:38 am
Posted by atom1505
Member since Aug 2016
284 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 12:30 pm to
The non-monetary benefit of being comfortable on the second floor of the house outweighs most of that for me. I'm not looking at it strictly from an investment standpoint.
Posted by CharlieTiger
ATL
Member since Jun 2014
919 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 12:59 pm to
I put foam in my attic when I rebuilt our house about 8 years ago. One thing our builder recommended is to use open cell vs closed cell foam. No idea if this is still an issue anymore, but he said that closed cell is more dense(higher insulation levels), but if there's a leak in the roof, you'll never know it. Open cell will let water through it, so you'll see it. Without that, you may have a giant rotting hole in your roof due to a leak with closed cell and you'd never know it.

I'm in Atlanta and our attic will definitely get hot in the summer, but nowhere near what it would be without foam.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 1:01 pm
Posted by greenbean
USAF Retired - 31 years
Member since Feb 2019
5711 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

The non-monetary benefit of being comfortable on the second floor of the house outweighs most of that for me. I'm not looking at it strictly from an investment standpoint.


Not sure I've seen the term "1.5" story before what does that mean.

I added a split unit to cool my second story (for $5,000), it's worked great and will likely add to the resale value, the additional insulation may not.
Posted by TUman
Member since Aug 2005
305 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

I'm more concerned with whether or not it is necessary to remove the existing blown in insulation in the attic.


I’m not close to being an expert. I do have open cell in ceiling and walls. You’ve had some energy efficient person recommend not removing. If the others can’t give you sound reasoning for removing then I would leave as is. I think you’ll be happier with the upstairs room and entire home by going open cell. I’ve had experience with a bonus room above my garage. If not properly insulated with necessary air flow you’ll be wasting money.
Posted by atom1505
Member since Aug 2016
284 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

Not sure I've seen the term "1.5" story before what does that mean.


I've always called a house 1.5 story if the second floor didn't almost cover the first floor. My second story is 1/3 the side of my first story.
Posted by greenbean
USAF Retired - 31 years
Member since Feb 2019
5711 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:26 pm to
gotcha, thanks and good luck. Keep us update, this kind of stuff intrigues me.
Posted by TUman
Member since Aug 2005
305 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

I’m not close to being an expert. I do have open cell in ceiling and walls


Meant to say roof deck, not ceiling
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5600 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:25 pm to
OP - this article might help answer your question - author has a Ph.D., in physics, is a forensic building inspector and home energy specialist. Also happens to be from down the bayou originally - Chauvin, Louisiana.

3 Reasons to Remove Attic Floor Insulation in a Spray Foam Attic

Though he advocates removal, and explains his 3 reasons why, he also states he’s been in homes where existing fiberglass insulation wasn’t removed with no apparent issues, but it’s a risk.
Posted by atom1505
Member since Aug 2016
284 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:50 pm to
Thanks Craw. That's exactly the type of information I was looking for. I appreciate the post.
Posted by CatfishJohn
Member since Jun 2020
16896 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 3:02 pm to
I'm about to lay plywood over all the crossbeams in my attic that have foam between them to create more storage space. I was considering putting a radiant barrier down first.

Will that do anything? And is it better to do it under or over the plywood flooring panels?

Posted by Turnblad85
Member since Sep 2022
3141 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 9:07 pm to
if you have foam in your ceiling joists then a radiant barrier is a bit overkill.

However, It would make being in the attic a little more bearable if it was stapled to the rafters above the plywood storage space.
This post was edited on 7/21/23 at 9:53 am
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
15388 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 9:08 am to
Anyone come across a situation like mine:
I’m also a 1.5 story home (Acadian style, 3 dormers on one side, one large dormer on the other). There is a front and rear porch space that are under the attic with that blue vinyl non-perforated material under both porches. The garage is also not under any livable space, so there’s probably north of 2000sqft of attic space that I could gain as conditioned storage. But 850 of that had that material underneath it- does that also get “sealed” with foam, or does that style just complicate the matter? The roof itself was recently replaced and is 80 squares, so it’s already going to be a pretty hefty price tag, I’m not certain that a bit more on the floor is necessarily a dealbreaker.


My energy company does audits, and I’m going to have them take a look before too much longer, I’m way more interested in increasing semi-controlled and non-humid attic space than maximizing the efficiency of the house. But as some have alluded to- some companies seem a little spray-happy and don’t really bother to explain why certain features of a house are basically incompatible with a seal/foam/encapsulated approach.

HVAC guy seems to think the unit there would do fine- recently replaced one, went variable speed for that reason.


And, while I don’t necessarily “need” all that space (I don’t nearly have the stuff to fill it up), the concept of using the attic for organization/storage, retrofitting a central vac and then turning some of it into a nice workbench area seems very intriguing.
Posted by jamiegla1
Member since Aug 2016
7558 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 3:15 pm to
quote:

how much attic is there above your bonus room?

Zero unfortunately. Forgive the crude sketch



quote:

the thought of shimmying around up there trying to staple radiant barrier sounds terrible

man all i could think of were the ways id fall through the sheetrock as i tried to use scaffold or a ladder to get to the top of the roof.

Unfortunately i wont be able to use radiant barrier on the bonus room. All i can do is radiant barrier the main attic to lower the attic temperature surrounding the bonus room.
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