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Message
re: Flu shot?
Posted on 11/10/26 at 10:43 am to Volt
Posted on 11/10/26 at 10:43 am to Volt
“CDC.gov.”
“”This page lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine”.
I looked up one of the studies: Vaccine Effectiveness Against Influenza A-Associated Hospitalization,OrganFailure,and Death:United States,2022-2023.
Sounds good-vaccination was associated with reduced risk of influenza -associated hospitalization and organ failure.
Then I go down to the Conflict of Interest Statement
Wouldn’t you know - some of the funders of the study were vaccine manufacturers:Merck,GlaxoSmithKline,Sanofi,Pfizer and AstraZeneca(Flumist)
Does anyone really believe that a study funded by vaccine manufacturers would arrive at any conclusion other than flu vaccines prevent serious illness even if one gets the flu despite being vaccinated.
I remain skeptical..
“”This page lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine”.
I looked up one of the studies: Vaccine Effectiveness Against Influenza A-Associated Hospitalization,OrganFailure,and Death:United States,2022-2023.
Sounds good-vaccination was associated with reduced risk of influenza -associated hospitalization and organ failure.
Then I go down to the Conflict of Interest Statement
Wouldn’t you know - some of the funders of the study were vaccine manufacturers:Merck,GlaxoSmithKline,Sanofi,Pfizer and AstraZeneca(Flumist)
Does anyone really believe that a study funded by vaccine manufacturers would arrive at any conclusion other than flu vaccines prevent serious illness even if one gets the flu despite being vaccinated.
I remain skeptical..
Posted on 11/10/26 at 11:03 am to LSUA 75
quote:
LSUA 75
Great post.
Posted on 11/10/26 at 2:44 pm to Tiger503
Thank you!
Volt has a lot of faith in studies in medical journals.
I would offer a counter view.
Dr.Marcia Angell,MD,former editor in chief of New England Journal of Medicine(considered by many Drs to be a prestigious journal).
In 2009 she wrote:”It is no longer possible to believe studies published in medical journals”
Her concerns:1)Industry-Funded Research
2)Conflicts of Interest
3)Distorted Literature
Richard Horton( editor of the Lancet) similarly raised alarms about small sample sizes,publication bias and statistical manipulation affecting the reliability of published science.
At one time medical journals were reliable sources of the latest research in medicine,they scrutinized studies with a fine tooth comb.They were corrupted by pharmaceutical dollars and it became a money game.They rely on pharma ads in journal,they also make a lot of money selling reprints of published studies for pharma reps to hand out as part of their peddling drugs to Drs.
The American Academy of Pediatrics(,arch enemy of RFK,Jr for questioning childhood vaccines) similarly recieves a large amount of funding from vaccine manufacturers I mentioned-Pfizer,Merck,GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi. AAP claims to base their vaccination recommendations on “the science”.
Anyone that wants to go down a rabbit hole here are some interesting articles:
Pfizer Whistle blower Tells Bextra Story
Drotrecogin Alpha(Xigris),article in Wikipedia Skip down to Marketing
Controversy.
What Have We learned From Vioxx-a BMJ article,found on PubMed
Central.
Timeline: TheRise and Fall of Vioxx.
Bextra,Vioxx and Xigris are of particular interest to me because I was working ICU during the times they were promoted and I saw the harm that resulted from them.
Xigris was on the scene my last 10 years,was pulled shortly after I retired.
It was promoted heavily as a life saving drug for the treatment of sepsis,It didn’t do shite except cause some serious bleeding problems for some very sick people.Eli Lily made a lot of money off of it.
The result for me was it hardened my skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry.
Very big reason I didn’t take the Covid shot.My skepticism was again rewarded.Anyone not familiar with the Pfizer Papers,it’s an analysis of the clinical data that Pfizer compiled during their study of the Covid shot.
Pfizer and the FDA wanted to withhold all that data for 75 years,some Drs. sued and a Federal judge made them release the data over 7 months.
It was revealed that 3 months after the shot was released that it was not stopping infections or stopping transmission,Pfizer and FDA knew that.
Also revealed that after 4 months Pfizer and the FDA knew it was causing heart problems,primarily in young men.
Pfizer and FDA also knew there was DNA contamination of the shot,they had vehemently denied that.
Here’s the conundrum- Pharma puts out some very good drugs,some life saving.
They’ve also got their corrupt side.My feeling is don’t take any new drugs until they have been out a least 5 years.
I’m lucky,I don’t take any,except an antibiotic every few years.
Volt has a lot of faith in studies in medical journals.
I would offer a counter view.
Dr.Marcia Angell,MD,former editor in chief of New England Journal of Medicine(considered by many Drs to be a prestigious journal).
In 2009 she wrote:”It is no longer possible to believe studies published in medical journals”
Her concerns:1)Industry-Funded Research
2)Conflicts of Interest
3)Distorted Literature
Richard Horton( editor of the Lancet) similarly raised alarms about small sample sizes,publication bias and statistical manipulation affecting the reliability of published science.
At one time medical journals were reliable sources of the latest research in medicine,they scrutinized studies with a fine tooth comb.They were corrupted by pharmaceutical dollars and it became a money game.They rely on pharma ads in journal,they also make a lot of money selling reprints of published studies for pharma reps to hand out as part of their peddling drugs to Drs.
The American Academy of Pediatrics(,arch enemy of RFK,Jr for questioning childhood vaccines) similarly recieves a large amount of funding from vaccine manufacturers I mentioned-Pfizer,Merck,GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi. AAP claims to base their vaccination recommendations on “the science”.
Anyone that wants to go down a rabbit hole here are some interesting articles:
Pfizer Whistle blower Tells Bextra Story
Drotrecogin Alpha(Xigris),article in Wikipedia Skip down to Marketing
Controversy.
What Have We learned From Vioxx-a BMJ article,found on PubMed
Central.
Timeline: TheRise and Fall of Vioxx.
Bextra,Vioxx and Xigris are of particular interest to me because I was working ICU during the times they were promoted and I saw the harm that resulted from them.
Xigris was on the scene my last 10 years,was pulled shortly after I retired.
It was promoted heavily as a life saving drug for the treatment of sepsis,It didn’t do shite except cause some serious bleeding problems for some very sick people.Eli Lily made a lot of money off of it.
The result for me was it hardened my skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry.
Very big reason I didn’t take the Covid shot.My skepticism was again rewarded.Anyone not familiar with the Pfizer Papers,it’s an analysis of the clinical data that Pfizer compiled during their study of the Covid shot.
Pfizer and the FDA wanted to withhold all that data for 75 years,some Drs. sued and a Federal judge made them release the data over 7 months.
It was revealed that 3 months after the shot was released that it was not stopping infections or stopping transmission,Pfizer and FDA knew that.
Also revealed that after 4 months Pfizer and the FDA knew it was causing heart problems,primarily in young men.
Pfizer and FDA also knew there was DNA contamination of the shot,they had vehemently denied that.
Here’s the conundrum- Pharma puts out some very good drugs,some life saving.
They’ve also got their corrupt side.My feeling is don’t take any new drugs until they have been out a least 5 years.
I’m lucky,I don’t take any,except an antibiotic every few years.
Posted on 11/10/26 at 3:48 pm to LSUA 75
Thank YOU, for showing how it's done. Actual objective research using critical thinking and logic, with a dose of healthy skepticism.
Here's an older book (2004) by Dr. Marcia Angell: LINK
Big Pharma has only become bigger more corrupt since then.
Here's an older book (2004) by Dr. Marcia Angell: LINK
Big Pharma has only become bigger more corrupt since then.
quote:
During her two decades at The New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marcia Angell had a front-row seat on the appalling spectacle of the pharmaceutical industry. She watched drug companies stray from their original mission of discovering and manufacturing useful drugs and instead become vast marketing machines with unprecedented control over their own fortunes. She saw them gain nearly limitless influence over medical research, education, and how doctors do their jobs. She sympathized as the American public, particularly the elderly, struggled and increasingly failed to meet spiraling prescription drug prices. Now, in this bold, hard-hitting new book, Dr. Angell exposes the shocking truth of what the pharmaceutical industry has become–and argues for essential, long-overdue change.
Posted on 11/10/26 at 4:14 pm to TideSaint
quote:Meaning you got the flu and it wasn't attenuated at all?
It didn't do shite.
Posted on 11/11/26 at 9:38 am to braves21
Anecdotal, but I've gotten the flu shot once in my life after my employer at the time bullied me into it.
I got insanely sick from it.
Never got it again
I've never had the flu previous to getting that shot, and in the years afterward I still have never contracted the flu.
I got insanely sick from it.
Never got it again
I've never had the flu previous to getting that shot, and in the years afterward I still have never contracted the flu.
Posted on 11/12/26 at 9:27 am to braves21
No
Posted on 11/12/26 at 9:31 am to boxcarbarney
quote:
Anecdotal, but I've gotten the flu shot once in my life after my employer at the time bullied me into it.
I got insanely sick from it.
Never got it again
I've never had the flu previous to getting that shot, and in the years afterward I still have never contracted the flu.
Same, more or less. I know it's just one person's experience, but the only bad flu experience I've had was when I got the shot. I've certainly gotten sick most flu seasons, but I haven't had the debilitating experience I had the time I got the shot.... also I work in a high tranmission field (secondary education).
Posted on 11/12/26 at 10:07 am to pwejr88
quote:
It's not protection against all strains of flu. It's insurance that if you get the flu, it won't be as severe or turn into pneumonia.
Not really. The vast majority of studies done haven't been able to draw any strong conclusions that this is the case, and that is even taking into account that most of the studies have had some glaring variable and randomization problems to boot (not necessarily intentionally but only data that could be gotten to look at).
There is only truly any strong causal evidence that it can reduce the risk of getting the infection, understanding that in any given year that reduction can vary by a lot depending on how accurate they were guessing the strand a few year's prior when starting development. If you actually get the flu, the vaccine isn't anywhere close to the dominant factor on the severity of it or if it can progress to something like pneumonia.
All that said, i'm not saying that means don't get it, just that it isn't really the case that it makes it less bad if you get it. It *can* help reduce risk of getting it but even that comes with plenty of caveats.
This post was edited on 11/12/26 at 11:10 am
Posted on 11/12/26 at 11:42 am to hogfly
quote:
Anecdotal, but I've gotten the flu shot once in my life after my employer at the time bullied me into it.
The Army made me get it every year for 26 years. I got the flu every year.
I have not gotten the vaccine since I retired 4 years ago and I haven't even had the sniffles since.
This is also anecdotal, as I was maybe getting sick due to overwork and my current job is very low stress with lots of time off.
This post was edited on 11/12/26 at 11:44 am
Posted on 11/12/26 at 3:12 pm to s0tiger
My anecdote matches these. The only people I ever hear getting the flu are telling themselves and others at least it's not as bad since they got the shot. Sure.
Posted on 11/12/26 at 4:05 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
“ The vast majority of studies done haven’t been able to draw any strong conclusions that this is the case”.
That’s not the impression I got,
VOLT linked the CDC page “that lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine”
I read the CDC page and several studies that were listed.Statements that were made and conclusions of the various studies were pretty emphatic that “the flu vaccine would prevent serious illness or hospitalization.” even if,one got the flu.
Then look at the conflict of interest statement and the studies were financed by pharmaceutical companies.Some studies didn’t have conflict of interest statements but look up some of the authors and no surprise- they have financial relationships with pharma.
What it boils down to is they are lying through their teeth.It’s all about selling vaccines.
VOLT states he has been in the medical field for 28 years.Why he didn’t learn how corrupt pharma,CDC,FDA ,HHS and NIH are after that fiasco I can’t figure.
Actually,I can.He is a product of the educational system my child psychology professor complained about back in 1974..She said it was designed to ensure compliance with authority,suppress creativity,curiosity and critical thinking.The focus was on rote memory and ability to regurgitate
what was taught.
Pretty common in the medical field,in my experience amongst Drs.and other disciplines.Pharmacy for example is a pretty rigorous program.I know pharmicists that to this day believe the high cost of drugs is because drug companies have to recoup the large amt on money they spend on R&D.
That is part of it but the bigger part is that they spend significantly more on advertising,promoting their drugs to Drs.and on lobbyists.
It’s pretty interesting what is found if one spends some time researching the revolving door between pharma and our “health”:agencies.
Scott Gottlieb-former FDA commissioner in charge of regulating Pfizer,salary with FDA was approx,$200,000.Retires and goes on the board of Pfizer,salary $393,500.
James C.Smith,CEO of Reuters in charge of informing people about COVID -19 vaccine still with Reuters and makes millions but he was named to Pfizer board of directors,salary-$390,000.I guess every little bit helps.
There are others,in the last 20 years 11 out of 12 FDA commissioners have left to take roles connected to pharma.
Other research-Between 2004-2020,54% of CDC employees left to go to work in the private health sector (pharma,biotech or related roles).
Similar numbers for FDA,HHS employees.
That’s not the impression I got,
VOLT linked the CDC page “that lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine”
I read the CDC page and several studies that were listed.Statements that were made and conclusions of the various studies were pretty emphatic that “the flu vaccine would prevent serious illness or hospitalization.” even if,one got the flu.
Then look at the conflict of interest statement and the studies were financed by pharmaceutical companies.Some studies didn’t have conflict of interest statements but look up some of the authors and no surprise- they have financial relationships with pharma.
What it boils down to is they are lying through their teeth.It’s all about selling vaccines.
VOLT states he has been in the medical field for 28 years.Why he didn’t learn how corrupt pharma,CDC,FDA ,HHS and NIH are after that fiasco I can’t figure.
Actually,I can.He is a product of the educational system my child psychology professor complained about back in 1974..She said it was designed to ensure compliance with authority,suppress creativity,curiosity and critical thinking.The focus was on rote memory and ability to regurgitate
what was taught.
Pretty common in the medical field,in my experience amongst Drs.and other disciplines.Pharmacy for example is a pretty rigorous program.I know pharmicists that to this day believe the high cost of drugs is because drug companies have to recoup the large amt on money they spend on R&D.
That is part of it but the bigger part is that they spend significantly more on advertising,promoting their drugs to Drs.and on lobbyists.
It’s pretty interesting what is found if one spends some time researching the revolving door between pharma and our “health”:agencies.
Scott Gottlieb-former FDA commissioner in charge of regulating Pfizer,salary with FDA was approx,$200,000.Retires and goes on the board of Pfizer,salary $393,500.
James C.Smith,CEO of Reuters in charge of informing people about COVID -19 vaccine still with Reuters and makes millions but he was named to Pfizer board of directors,salary-$390,000.I guess every little bit helps.
There are others,in the last 20 years 11 out of 12 FDA commissioners have left to take roles connected to pharma.
Other research-Between 2004-2020,54% of CDC employees left to go to work in the private health sector (pharma,biotech or related roles).
Similar numbers for FDA,HHS employees.
Posted on 11/12/26 at 4:20 pm to LSUA 75
quote:
That’s not the impression I got,
I think you misinterpreted what I said because we are largely arguing the same point and you go on to say so in the rest of your post. Most reports that have tried to look into any correlation between the vaccines and the severity of the flu once infected/subsequent issues have all had to say that they can't really draw any causal relationship between the two for a multitude of reasons. The only data out there with any consistency is that it can help prevent from getting infected (and even that isn't something that has super strong data at this point, there have also been studies that show it does nothing to reduce risk of infection). Once you get infected, the vaccine really doesn't determine if it will be severe or not, that is mostly determined by other factors.
I wasn't responding to VOLT's point, though they are related, I was responding to the other poster that made the point that they were to help prevent the flu from being very bad if you got it. That isn't right at all.
This post was edited on 11/12/26 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 11/12/26 at 10:54 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
“That isn’t right at all.
That’s what I think also.It doesn’t make sense to me that if there was a mis-match between the vaccine and another strain that caused one to get the flu that the vaccine would reduce severity of illness and prevent hospitalization.
That is exactly the claim that pwejr88 made and jose agreed with him.I was surprised at jose actually.Posts of his in the past he seemed pretty sharp but I didn’t go back to check his position on the Covid shot.
Then I asked,if there were any studies that proved that claim,VOLT responded with the link to CDC.gov and he stated “ This page lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine.”
I looked at several of the studies and the confict of interest statement at the end with funding by pharma convinced me it was bullshite
Some studies didn’t have confict of interests posted.The very first author I looked up had financial relationships with several drug companies and had recieved a grant from Bill Gates ??
That’s what I think also.It doesn’t make sense to me that if there was a mis-match between the vaccine and another strain that caused one to get the flu that the vaccine would reduce severity of illness and prevent hospitalization.
That is exactly the claim that pwejr88 made and jose agreed with him.I was surprised at jose actually.Posts of his in the past he seemed pretty sharp but I didn’t go back to check his position on the Covid shot.
Then I asked,if there were any studies that proved that claim,VOLT responded with the link to CDC.gov and he stated “ This page lists study after study describing the many benefits of getting the flu vaccine.”
I looked at several of the studies and the confict of interest statement at the end with funding by pharma convinced me it was bullshite
Some studies didn’t have confict of interests posted.The very first author I looked up had financial relationships with several drug companies and had recieved a grant from Bill Gates ??
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