re: Steve Elkington posted a pic that nails today’s PGA.

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Hitting bombs off the tee is not new. Palmer, Nicklaus and many others would consistently hit 300+ drives during tourney play. Make the greens smaller and penalize slightly errant approach shots.

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Nicklaus was ridiculous long especially as a younger man, and he dominated obviously.

Then came others, Norman, Tiger....guess what talented guys who hit it longer than everyone do well

Fix the ball, raise the spin rate on drivers, fix the problem . Bifurcation already appears in Baseball, it could be accomplished easily in Professional Golf without undue financial burdens to manufacturers.

Baseball is a bad example bc there is a defense. The only defense in golf is the course and they are in a very difficult position. It's too expensive and hard to compete against guys that are this good with equipment that is this good.

I think the prevailing argument is that the equipment is making courses irrelevant. They are competing against guys who are also going low, so in theory that's the defense. But if you put a guy driving it 350-375 on the average golf course, the bunkers aren't in play and it's driver flip wedge all day. That's even how it is on some longer golf courses built just for the pros.

Are they still competing against other golfers and not par, absolutely. But is driver flip wedge all day really golf?

That's the argument, in a nutshell. What do you want golf to be. Do you want it to be long drivers that have touch inside of 120 yards or do you want guys who have to work balls both ways, hit some long irons, and play golf as we knew it in the past.

I'm not staking an argument one way or the other. But that's the argument.

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They're competing against either other. I don't understand the huge uproar with scores going lower because players and equipment and knowledge have come so far. The score to par is only relevant in that it's the tool for comparison to the competition. It's arbitrary otherwise.

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For entertainment purposes there needs to be a balance in sports.
Rules in football, baseball and basketball change and evolve for this reason.
For instance in baseball pitchers started dominated do they lowered the pitching mounds. Scoring increased, but the powers that be decided they wanted more homers and we had fences moved in and the ball juiced.
In basketball they added shot clocks, relaxed walking and dribbling rules, added a three point shot, and did things to increase action and scoring.
Football too makes rule changes all the time.
Golf needs to change to to keep a balance. If every player at Augusta eagled 13 and 15 it wouldn’t be fun. The balanced play is to keep that balance between high risk and high reward on those holes.
In the US Open people want drama. They want to see struggles. They want to see stars humbled. They don’t tune in to see the Hawaiian Open and the leaders shooting 25 under par.
This year DeChambeau won by a lot at the Open. Everybody points to his distance, but they are dismissing how well he played around and on the greens. Length was one factor, but it wasn’t the only factor. He was able to put it in the hole in short order because he was the best overall player.
Golf will have to wake up. Pebble, Winged Foot snd Augusta can’t become obsolete. It would hurt the sport.

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For entertainment purposes there needs to be a balance in sports.
Rules in football, baseball and basketball change and evolve for this reason.

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It’s because of “entertainment” that offense is given extra protections. Fences in baseball were brought in. You can’t touch a QB or WR. A guy drive the lane can take 5 steps and run over anyone on his way to a dunk. The 3 point line. Higher scoring = more action = more people interested. You gave those examples too. That wasn’t about balance. It was about entertainment equaling offense.

It’s in the name of “safety” where things turn the other way if at all. Slowing the bat/ball down in college. Moving kickoffs 5 yards. What, for golf, would be done in the name of safety?

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If every player at Augusta eagled 13 and 15 it wouldn’t be fun.

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Well hello strawman. This doesn’t happen. So why add it to the argument?

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In the US Open people want drama. They want to see struggles. They want to see stars humbled.

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They tune in because it’s a major and, yes, it’s interesting to watch them play like us normal people once or twice a year. But NO ONE wants that every weekend I don’t care if it’s in Hawaii or NoLa or New York. I get to see plenty of struggles in my golf group. Watching those guys play well is way better than watching them struggle. And no matter where they play, it’s the same course for everyone. Only weather can play an “unfair” role.

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This year DeChambeau won by a lot at the Open. Everybody points to his distance, but they are dismissing how well he played around and on the greens. Length was one factor, but it wasn’t the only factor. He was able to put it in the hole in short order because he was the best overall player.

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You are proving my point. Thanks.

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So... you’re against any changes. Got it.

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I never said that.

I'll stake my position in a somewhat nuanced manner. Is this an issue today on tour, meh. Will it be an issue in the coming years/decades, absolutely.

If you don't touch the rules for the professionals (at least), guys like Bryson will continue to hit it a mile. But more importantly, you'll have guys coming up who have played golf their entire lives simply hitting it as far as possible. My daughter is 5 and the only swing tip I've given her, for the most part, is swing as hard as you can. Imagine a slew of kids her age that grew up in the Bryson era. They won't know any other game other than bomb and gouge, which is statistically the best style of golf under the current rules regime.

So is it a huge issue now, no. Guys from different ability groups and styles can currently win. It won't always be that way. When it gets to only Brysons winning on tour, it'll be too late to fix it.



Now the flip side of that coin is "maybe that is now what golf is and that's ok." There isn't anything wrong with that position. Golf has changed over the years and if you are ok with the game of golf being mostly a power game without the shot making requirements of hitting fairways, shaping shots, controlling spin, etc. then you are probably fine with no control on the equipment. The argument really turns on the "what do you want golf to be?" question. I just prefer to see more than long drive guys win.

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I'll stake my position in a somewhat nuanced manner. Is this an issue today on tour, meh. Will it be an issue in the coming years/decades, absolutely.

If you don't touch the rules for the professionals (at least), guys like Bryson will continue to hit it a mile. But more importantly, you'll have guys coming up who have played golf their entire lives simply hitting it as far as possible. My daughter is 5 and the only swing tip I've given her, for the most part, is swing as hard as you can. Imagine a slew of kids her age that grew up in the Bryson era. They won't know any other game other than bomb and gouge, which is statistically the best style of golf under the current rules regime.

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“The members used to say, ‘Mr. Grout, you’re just gonna ruin that boy the way you’re letting him swing,'" Kessler says. "And Grout just said, ‘Don’t worry about that. We gotta let Jackie Boy stretch those muscles while he’s young. When he gets them stretched where he oughta be, we’ll reign him in.”

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Interesting this is what Jack Grout taught Nicklaus nearly 70 years ago, hit it hard, and he dominated with power, this isn't new by any means.