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Started By
Message
Lengthen the US Open Venues
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:37 am
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:37 am
This option takes into account 2 things: (1) par matters, and (2) the US Open winner should finish around par.
There are three ways that I think you can have guys finish around par in a US Open:
(1) Pray for bad weather. A lot of wind or rain, similar to some British Opens of past years.
(2) Make the greens really fast. Makes shots hard to stick from the fairways, tough chip shots, tough to putt on.
(3) Lengthen the golf course until most/all guys have to hit some long irons into par 4s with some three shot par 5s.
The first two options rely on weather. If option 1 doesn't get weather, the guys are going to go low. If option 2 gets windy, you get Saturday's round at Shinnecock.
The only sure fire way to control scores is to lengthen the golf course. Common sense dictates that the shorter the golf course, the lower the score, all else being equal. My distance from the pin is much smaller with a flip wedge than a 4i.
The US Open should be about controlling variables to give the USGA the best chance to keep really good golfers around par. They aren't currently taking advantage of the length component and they are forcing themselves into option 2.
If you add length as a component, if the weather looks bad, you can move some tees around. You can firm up some greens if the weather looks good. They can currently manipulate the length of the golf courses, but they can't expand them as far as they need to in order to actually provide a test. Alan Shipnuck said 9k-10k would be the length needed for the guys to hit long irons into greens. Go to a course where it's 9k yards and use the length as another variable. Otherwise we will have birdie fest US Opens or US Opens where the guys feel good shots aren't being rewarded.
There are three ways that I think you can have guys finish around par in a US Open:
(1) Pray for bad weather. A lot of wind or rain, similar to some British Opens of past years.
(2) Make the greens really fast. Makes shots hard to stick from the fairways, tough chip shots, tough to putt on.
(3) Lengthen the golf course until most/all guys have to hit some long irons into par 4s with some three shot par 5s.
The first two options rely on weather. If option 1 doesn't get weather, the guys are going to go low. If option 2 gets windy, you get Saturday's round at Shinnecock.
The only sure fire way to control scores is to lengthen the golf course. Common sense dictates that the shorter the golf course, the lower the score, all else being equal. My distance from the pin is much smaller with a flip wedge than a 4i.
The US Open should be about controlling variables to give the USGA the best chance to keep really good golfers around par. They aren't currently taking advantage of the length component and they are forcing themselves into option 2.
If you add length as a component, if the weather looks bad, you can move some tees around. You can firm up some greens if the weather looks good. They can currently manipulate the length of the golf courses, but they can't expand them as far as they need to in order to actually provide a test. Alan Shipnuck said 9k-10k would be the length needed for the guys to hit long irons into greens. Go to a course where it's 9k yards and use the length as another variable. Otherwise we will have birdie fest US Opens or US Opens where the guys feel good shots aren't being rewarded.
14
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:41 am to The Johnny Lawrence
i'm not sure how much more length you can add
7400 yards and par 70 is already long AF
7400 yards and par 70 is already long AF
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:42 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Useless post. Shinnicock had a 265 yd par 3, a 625 yd par 5 that Johnson and Koepka both layed up to, and a 521 yd par 4. Those are ridiculosly long.
Winner was +1. What is your point?
Winner was +1. What is your point?
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:47 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Narrow the fairways.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:48 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Over par won the tournament...
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:49 am to Croacka
A 7400 par 70 is really long for us. It's not that long for tour guys. Erin Hills was 7,800 and it played very easy in comparison.
I think the winners score this week wasn't because of distance. It was because of the fast, firm greens that they "lost" on Saturday.
I think the winners score this week wasn't because of distance. It was because of the fast, firm greens that they "lost" on Saturday.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:50 am to hehateme2285
Member when the US Open had 25yd wide fairways?
Lee Janzen Members
Lee Janzen Members
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:53 am to The Johnny Lawrence
So you want to eliminate half the field so the guys that hit it far are the only ones that have a chance?
Your post is really dumb. Length is not a way to beat these guys. It's angles. Fairway width isn't even that important. Make the fairways wide, but one side eliminates birdie because of the angle. The good side of the fairway brings in bogey or worse.
Any highly regarded architect will tell you that, but for some reason the USGA is retarded.
Eta:and I also don't understand why people think it's such a travesty that the best player in the world that week shoots 5 under over 4 days. These guys are really good, they should be able to make birdies anywhere, making a course a gimmick to "protect par" is just dumb.
Your post is really dumb. Length is not a way to beat these guys. It's angles. Fairway width isn't even that important. Make the fairways wide, but one side eliminates birdie because of the angle. The good side of the fairway brings in bogey or worse.
Any highly regarded architect will tell you that, but for some reason the USGA is retarded.
Eta:and I also don't understand why people think it's such a travesty that the best player in the world that week shoots 5 under over 4 days. These guys are really good, they should be able to make birdies anywhere, making a course a gimmick to "protect par" is just dumb.
This post was edited on 6/18/18 at 9:04 am
Posted on 6/18/18 at 8:58 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Par is irrelevant.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:13 am to Mingo Was His NameO
I agree par I'd irrelevant and the usga shouldn't be out to protect par.
I'm good with width. But there has to be a length component. Angles make a difference, but if you have wedge in your hand, being in the wrong side of the fairway isn't the end of the world.
I'm good with width. But there has to be a length component. Angles make a difference, but if you have wedge in your hand, being in the wrong side of the fairway isn't the end of the world.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:16 am to The Johnny Lawrence
quote:
This option takes into account 2 things: (1) par matters, and (2) the US Open winner should finish around par.
quote:
I agree par I'd irrelevant and the usga shouldn't be out to protect par.
Then why did you say it does in the OP?
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:24 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Dial back the ball.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:28 am to The Johnny Lawrence
The low score wins.
At the Open(British), when Stenson won he was maybe 20 under.
The courses are plenty long.
Have a tournament ball with limits.
At the Open(British), when Stenson won he was maybe 20 under.
The courses are plenty long.
Have a tournament ball with limits.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:31 am to Mingo Was His NameO
I'm saying for my opinion to matter, those two things have to be understood as important and correct. Didn't say my ultimate opinion was that. Just that if that's how the usga feels, this is what they should do.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:33 am to The Johnny Lawrence
quote:
I'm good with width. But there has to be a length component. Angles make a difference, but if you have wedge in your hand, being in the wrong side of the fairway isn't the end of the world.
happened lots of times this weekend. wedge in hand and players ended up in spots where a 2 putt par was great
Posted on 6/18/18 at 9:37 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Strategically placed trees and water
Posted on 6/18/18 at 10:04 am to The Johnny Lawrence
Merion played less than 7000 and the score was +1. Erin Hills Played 8000 and the score was -16.
Length isn’t the answer. Players and the media have been bitching about US Open Set ups since 1895. Players and the media will always bitch. It’s what they do. They bitched at Erin Hills last year... Kevin Na was posting videos about the rough on IG before the Open last year.
Length isn’t the answer. Players and the media have been bitching about US Open Set ups since 1895. Players and the media will always bitch. It’s what they do. They bitched at Erin Hills last year... Kevin Na was posting videos about the rough on IG before the Open last year.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 10:18 am to The Johnny Lawrence
There was a 300 yard par 3 at Oakmont. How much longer you want?
Narrow the fairways and make the greens slick. You can’t eliminate people by using length.
Narrow the fairways and make the greens slick. You can’t eliminate people by using length.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 10:29 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
Oakmont only played 7,200 yards for a par 70. Sure the USGA has a long hole every now and then and they have a lot of holes that are long for the average golfer, but guys hitting it 320 happens regularly. They also have guys that can hit it further than that. They don't have a golf course that is long throughout.
Make every hole play long.
The 243 yard par 3 and they are hitting irons is just unfathomable for the average golfer. These guys aren't us. If you want to make them play at par, the fairest way is to bring it back a hundred yards a hole. Otherwise they could continue to lose the greens or make unfair pins to try and keep them at par.
Make every hole play long.
The 243 yard par 3 and they are hitting irons is just unfathomable for the average golfer. These guys aren't us. If you want to make them play at par, the fairest way is to bring it back a hundred yards a hole. Otherwise they could continue to lose the greens or make unfair pins to try and keep them at par.
Posted on 6/18/18 at 10:40 am to The Johnny Lawrence
quote:
The 243 yard par 3 and they are hitting irons is just unfathomable for the average golfer
It was downwind dude. Tiger said after the round of there was no wind some guys would have had to hit driver on a par 3. It's pretty much a fact that length is not the answer. Erin Hills almost 8000 yards 16 under won. Harbor Town is the shortest course on tour and around 10 under usually wins. Grow the rough ans speed up the greens a touch and around even par would win on the shortest course.
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