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Message
re: Shenmue 3 is an Epic Games Store Exclusive
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:17 am to Scruffy
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:17 am to Scruffy
quote:
These producers know that people will buy their games no matter what. They know people will use Epic to play their games.
Didn't work out that way with Metro Exodus. We'll have to wait and see if people end up giving in. I do think it'll happen eventually.
quote:
That’s the difference? Jesus, no shite the devs are gonna go with EGS, that’s huge
The percentage gets more favorable the more your game sells. It goes down to 25% for passing $10m in gross revneue and then down to 20% for passing $50m in gross revenue. Still a disparity.
1
Posted on 6/11/19 at 10:29 am to oauron
quote:Yea, it’ll happen.
Didn't work out that way with Metro Exodus. We'll have to wait and see if people end up giving in. I do think it'll happen eventually.
quote:So, the best possible is an 8% difference...AFTER they have already lost a total of $13 million.
The percentage gets more favorable the more your game sells. It goes down to 25% for passing $10m in gross revneue and then down to 20% for passing $50m in gross revenue. Still a disparity.
Those numbers are not favorable at all.
Now, if they choose Epic, for that $50 million, they would give up $6 million.
That is less than half.
No businessman would pass on that.
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 10:30 am
Posted on 6/11/19 at 11:16 am to BulldogXero
I feel so betrayed, I am a huge fan of Dreamcast and Shenmue, I was a day 1 backer.
Now after crowdfunding a game for years never thought possible to make, that the fans made possible, and waiting 4 years delay after delay, they take a kickback from Epic Games to require us to install Epic chinese spyware on our computers to get our reward.
To make things worse they've confirmed it is coming to Steam, just at a later date. So as a reward for backing the game early I'm forced into Epic's platform and will miss out on all the extra features and functionality of Steam that people who just wait will get.
If cost was the problem here I would have paid 2-3x the price to get my hands on this game. They're just double-dipping.
I was planning on playing this game through Steam streaming so no, I can't "just install Epic Games" and that doesn't help other people who are on Linux, etc. I think competition is wonderful but Epic Games isn't competing based off of catering to the customers, they're just paying off the developers/publishers. Their client is awful, and based on their CEO's ridiculous comments on twitter I would prefer to vote with my dollars and never give a cent to them.
Of course they won't be giving refunds to Kickstarter backers so I'm SOL. And they continue to copypasta "after discussion we're making it available on the best distribution platform" blah blah blah "no refunds".
I refuse to install Epic spyware on my computer, so I'm trying to switch my reward to the PS4 version so I can sell it off, take my losses, and just pirate the cracked PC version.
Now after crowdfunding a game for years never thought possible to make, that the fans made possible, and waiting 4 years delay after delay, they take a kickback from Epic Games to require us to install Epic chinese spyware on our computers to get our reward.
To make things worse they've confirmed it is coming to Steam, just at a later date. So as a reward for backing the game early I'm forced into Epic's platform and will miss out on all the extra features and functionality of Steam that people who just wait will get.
If cost was the problem here I would have paid 2-3x the price to get my hands on this game. They're just double-dipping.
I was planning on playing this game through Steam streaming so no, I can't "just install Epic Games" and that doesn't help other people who are on Linux, etc. I think competition is wonderful but Epic Games isn't competing based off of catering to the customers, they're just paying off the developers/publishers. Their client is awful, and based on their CEO's ridiculous comments on twitter I would prefer to vote with my dollars and never give a cent to them.
Of course they won't be giving refunds to Kickstarter backers so I'm SOL. And they continue to copypasta "after discussion we're making it available on the best distribution platform" blah blah blah "no refunds".
I refuse to install Epic spyware on my computer, so I'm trying to switch my reward to the PS4 version so I can sell it off, take my losses, and just pirate the cracked PC version.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 11:48 am to efrad
The percent of revenue taken by Epic is the same regardless of exclusivity though is it not? As is the bonus for using Unreal Engine.
The exclusivity deals just feel like Epic throwing their Fornite money at publishers as a means to muscle their inferior product into the market before it's ready.
I do take more of an issue though if they announced a Steam release either when they established the kickstarter or heavily implied that it would launch on Steam. I honestly don't remember as I preordered a PS4 copy.
The exclusivity deals just feel like Epic throwing their Fornite money at publishers as a means to muscle their inferior product into the market before it's ready.
I do take more of an issue though if they announced a Steam release either when they established the kickstarter or heavily implied that it would launch on Steam. I honestly don't remember as I preordered a PS4 copy.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 12:16 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
I do take more of an issue though if they announced a Steam release either when they established the kickstarter or heavily implied that it would launch on Steam.
When the Kickstarter launched, it was not specifically stated that it would be on Steam. However, for 4 years they have stated it would be on Steam, when I confirmed my address/reward I picked "physical Steam disc," their backer survey page STILL at this time says the PC version is Steam. Not to mention when the Kickstarter launched Epic Games Store did not even exist. So yes, it's been heavily implied it would be on Steam all this time.
I in fact was hoping that by buying the physical disc version that I wouldn't even be tied to Steam at all. I'd rather my games be completely platform independent. However, I'm willing to concede using Steam, but I'm not willing to concede using Epic Games Store.
quote:
The exclusivity deals just feel like Epic throwing their Fornite money at publishers as a means to muscle their inferior product into the market before it's ready.
That's exactly what it is.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 12:19 pm to efrad
Y'all are legit weird
Posted on 6/11/19 at 12:55 pm to BulldogXero
Kinda off-topic, but I just got past the last day of fork lift bullshite on this first Shenmue and have no clue what to do next.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 1:01 pm to The Dudes Rug
buy a soda
Posted on 6/11/19 at 1:07 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Some will just never get it
explain it for me real quick. i'm kinda lost on the argument. i just know people are mad at epic and that's pretty much it. how should it be?
Posted on 6/11/19 at 1:46 pm to finchmeister08
The way it should be is how it is. Launchers want to compete to sell games so they can get a cut. There are different business tactics that other markets use as well that are being applied here but we have people on this board that do not understand this. Epic is paying developers to be exclusive to them for a period of time so that players will know about Epics launcher and get comfortable with using it. They are introducing themselves into a highly monopolistic market with Steam and need to make a move to establish themselves. The problem is if they take on Steam head on with only "features" a lot of players won't simply go to Epic just because of something new. So Epic decided to use exclusivity to gather new players. This is similar to Console gaming with PS4 and Xbox exclusives EXCEPT you are still able to play these games on PC. *Another point these people don't understand.*
A point that other gamers are making are that the consumer loses because of less features. It has already been stated by Epic that many of these features will later come along and could not sustain the massive growth that became of them from Fortnite so they pushed them a little bit. I and a lot of others really don't care about these features with exception of cloud saving (which Epic said they will release). I and a lot of others are more about the game and do not care what happens outside of playing it. There are even better third party applications that do better jobs than Steam ever did with Discord and Reddit forums but these people that keep making this argument fail to see past "muh gamer points."
Then there are the real wackos who think everything Epic does is a spy for China.
Epic is also giving the developers more money (+18%) and a bonus for using their engine. I would rather these developers get more money so they don't feel the financial burden of inflation and reliant on microtransactions and paywall DLC's. That seems to go over these posters heads as they just want their participation trophies for playing games.
A point that other gamers are making are that the consumer loses because of less features. It has already been stated by Epic that many of these features will later come along and could not sustain the massive growth that became of them from Fortnite so they pushed them a little bit. I and a lot of others really don't care about these features with exception of cloud saving (which Epic said they will release). I and a lot of others are more about the game and do not care what happens outside of playing it. There are even better third party applications that do better jobs than Steam ever did with Discord and Reddit forums but these people that keep making this argument fail to see past "muh gamer points."
Then there are the real wackos who think everything Epic does is a spy for China.
Epic is also giving the developers more money (+18%) and a bonus for using their engine. I would rather these developers get more money so they don't feel the financial burden of inflation and reliant on microtransactions and paywall DLC's. That seems to go over these posters heads as they just want their participation trophies for playing games.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 2:46 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
Are you intentionally ignoring people's points?
I CANNOT play Epic Games on my streaming setup. It doesn't work. It works for Steam, it works for standalone EXEs, doesn't work with Epic Games. Same with Linux users, who Epic CEO Tim Sweeney actively insults on twitter, so we can expect that they won't do anything to make their launcher work for people with less mainstream setups. So stop saying "you are still able to play these games." That isn't true for everyone.
Now instead of sitting on the sofa playing the game with my girlfriend like I did for Shenmue I & II on the Dreamcast last year in anticipation for this title, I'd have to huddle around the office monitor with her.
Nah, I'd rather switch to PS4 copy and sell it and pirate the PC version that doesn't require the Epic Games Launcher and WILL work on my computer's streaming setup. Yet another moment where the pirated version ends up being better.
No, they don't owe me any support for my specific setup, granted. But that doesn't mean I owe them my gratitude or support either.
Now, I _COULD_ wait until later and get the Steam version when it comes out, but because I chose to back the game on day 1, I can't. After 4 years I'll be forced to have the Epic Games version, and everyone else who didn't support on day 1 can choose. I'll have to buy the game twice to get what I want. I don't see how you can't see that's bullshite.
And they would be here now if it were on Steam.
Spying for China might be hyperbole, but Epic Games has already been caught -- and admitted to -- spying on other data on the computer, specifically from Steam, without permission and without using the standard data API. Why should I trust Epic Games going forward?? This isn't a conspiracy.
If they needed more money maybe they should deliver what the fans want. Regardless of your opinion of Epic Games, it's clear there's a huge segment of PC gamers who want nothing to do with the store and want the features and experience Steam delivers. I don't personally give a shite about the achievements or anything, I don't even have a shite ton of Steam games. Maybe if the developers want money they will put it on a platform that will satisfy consumers?
I backed the game years ago on day 1 when Yu Suzuki got his arse in front of a camera and pleaded with fans that our dream of a Shenmue sequel was only possible if we came together and pooled our money. Instead he has whored himself out time and time again to detract from the experience. It was already insulting enough that he hid the fact that he had major support behind him during the Kickstarter period to milk more money out of the fanbase who was misled to believe this was more of a long shot than it really was.
Just give me a damn refund, that's all I want. Instead I am having the choice to vote with my dollars taken away from me.
quote:
This is similar to Console gaming with PS4 and Xbox exclusives EXCEPT you are still able to play these games on PC. *Another point these people don't understand.*
I CANNOT play Epic Games on my streaming setup. It doesn't work. It works for Steam, it works for standalone EXEs, doesn't work with Epic Games. Same with Linux users, who Epic CEO Tim Sweeney actively insults on twitter, so we can expect that they won't do anything to make their launcher work for people with less mainstream setups. So stop saying "you are still able to play these games." That isn't true for everyone.
Now instead of sitting on the sofa playing the game with my girlfriend like I did for Shenmue I & II on the Dreamcast last year in anticipation for this title, I'd have to huddle around the office monitor with her.
Nah, I'd rather switch to PS4 copy and sell it and pirate the PC version that doesn't require the Epic Games Launcher and WILL work on my computer's streaming setup. Yet another moment where the pirated version ends up being better.
No, they don't owe me any support for my specific setup, granted. But that doesn't mean I owe them my gratitude or support either.
Now, I _COULD_ wait until later and get the Steam version when it comes out, but because I chose to back the game on day 1, I can't. After 4 years I'll be forced to have the Epic Games version, and everyone else who didn't support on day 1 can choose. I'll have to buy the game twice to get what I want. I don't see how you can't see that's bullshite.
quote:
A point that other gamers are making are that the consumer loses because of less features. It has already been stated by Epic that many of these features will later come along
And they would be here now if it were on Steam.
quote:
Then there are the real wackos who think everything Epic does is a spy for China.
Spying for China might be hyperbole, but Epic Games has already been caught -- and admitted to -- spying on other data on the computer, specifically from Steam, without permission and without using the standard data API. Why should I trust Epic Games going forward?? This isn't a conspiracy.
quote:
Epic is also giving the developers more money (+18%) and a bonus for using their engine. I would rather these developers get more money so they don't feel the financial burden of inflation and reliant on microtransactions and paywall DLC's. That seems to go over these posters heads as they just want their participation trophies for playing games.
If they needed more money maybe they should deliver what the fans want. Regardless of your opinion of Epic Games, it's clear there's a huge segment of PC gamers who want nothing to do with the store and want the features and experience Steam delivers. I don't personally give a shite about the achievements or anything, I don't even have a shite ton of Steam games. Maybe if the developers want money they will put it on a platform that will satisfy consumers?
I backed the game years ago on day 1 when Yu Suzuki got his arse in front of a camera and pleaded with fans that our dream of a Shenmue sequel was only possible if we came together and pooled our money. Instead he has whored himself out time and time again to detract from the experience. It was already insulting enough that he hid the fact that he had major support behind him during the Kickstarter period to milk more money out of the fanbase who was misled to believe this was more of a long shot than it really was.
Just give me a damn refund, that's all I want. Instead I am having the choice to vote with my dollars taken away from me.
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 6/11/19 at 3:10 pm to Scruffy
quote:
So, the best possible is an 8% difference...AFTER they have already lost a total of $13 million.
Those numbers are not favorable at all.
Now, if they choose Epic, for that $50 million, they would give up $6 million.
That is less than half.
No businessman would pass on that.
It's a marketshare discussion. By not releasing on Steam, you're missing out on the vast majority of all Western PC spending. It'd be like exclusively releasing your game on Wii U only, because you got a sweet deal from Nintendo. You might make your money back, but you lose a lot of customers and burn lots of good will (especially in this case, where they mislead their customers who've already given money).
ETA: That said, I could see something like this working out Shenmue 3 positively. Game was going to do the majority of its business on PS4 regardless of EGS/Steam. At least they got some additional upfront money, even if it means pissing off your fans.
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 6/11/19 at 3:24 pm to efrad
You can't cater to the 1%. Linux is an outlier but you know that. It is a gripe to really not be able to play but you aren't really the type I was aiming at. There are some in here that think console exclusivity and launcher exclusivity are the same.
Your points are picked out by my argument. Steam is a well established launcher while epic is not. You can't compare features 1 to 1.
Your points are picked out by my argument. Steam is a well established launcher while epic is not. You can't compare features 1 to 1.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 4:38 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
You can't cater to the 1%. Linux is an outlier but you know that.
There's a big difference between simply not catering to Linux users, and actively insulting them on twitter.
Back in 2014 before the Epic Games store existed, Sweeney criticized Microsoft for being locked down with its own app store and touted Linux as the future.
LINK
Now that Epic Games Store is a thing and it doesn't support Linux, he says on twitter:
quote:
Installing Linux is sort of the equivalent of moving to Canada when one doesn’t like US political trends. Nope, we’ve got to fight for the freedoms we have today, where we have them today.
which has got to be the stupidest analogy I've ever heard.
Steam isn't perfect and yes they take a large cut but Steam is ultimately responsible for making the PC the excellent gaming platform it is today. Prior to the huge improvements Steam brought to PC gaming, Japanese developers like Yu Suzuki would never have brought a game like Shenmue III to the PC.
That doesn't mean they should be protected from competition, far from it, but competition should come from making a better product for consumers in the market, not developers acting working against consumers' wishes.
quote:
Your points are picked out by my argument. Steam is a well established launcher while epic is not. You can't compare features 1 to 1.
So what? Why does Epic Games Store deserve a pass from me or other gamers for delivering an inferior set of features? Why not throw all that Fortnite money into building a superior launcher instead of just paying off devs for exclusivity? It's not like there isn't criticism of Steam, people would welcome an alternative if it were done right, and there are ways to capture market share that aren't so blatantly anti-consumer.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 4:43 pm to efrad
Your situation is an outlier and irreverent to business decisions. Learn to live with it. You chose that route. It's not feasible to please everyone.
And epic is doing a fine job providing competition. You're talking about it which means it's relevant. Nobody gave a shite about the other launchers.
And epic is doing a fine job providing competition. You're talking about it which means it's relevant. Nobody gave a shite about the other launchers.
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 6/11/19 at 5:06 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Your situation is an outlier and irreverent to business decisions. Learn to live with it. You chose that route. It's not feasible to please everyone.
I specifically said it's nothing to do with catering to my setup. I conceded I don't expect Linux support, but at the same time I'm dissatisfied that they -- the company that would be getting my money against my will -- actively insult and trivialize Linux users.
quote:
You chose that route.
Yeah, no I didn't. Which is the entire. fricking. point.
Again: all I want is a refund, which is not a crazy request.
quote:
And epic is doing a fine job providing competition. You're talking about it which means it's relevant. Nobody gave a shite about the other launchers.
If your only example of them doing a "fine job providing competition" is that they exist and we've heard of them, you should go re-evaluate your arguments.
I really don't understand the necessity for people like you to get on the internet and tell me and others why we should be pleased with or accepting of getting bait-and-switched into an inferior product. Don't you have anything better to do than this type of trolling?
Posted on 6/11/19 at 5:12 pm to efrad
quote:
specifically said it's nothing to do with catering to my setup. I conceded I don't expect Linux support, but at the same time I'm dissatisfied that they -- the company that would be getting my money against my will -- actively insult and trivialize Linux users.
I'm not arguing that. I believe I already said you should be mad if you thought you could get it.
You chose to put Linux on your machine.
It's because y'all are crybabies and need to #metoo
Posted on 6/11/19 at 5:21 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
It's because y'all are crybabies and need to #metoo
Yes, yes, we get it, you're a troll, you don't have to repeat yourself.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 10:27 pm to efrad
Kickstarter backers who backed the game for a Steam PC copy are being told by the devs that there will be no refunds. That’s shady af. They backed for a Steam key. Basic offer and acceptance. Now there’s a forced change. At minimum they should give original backers a Steam key while the game goes on EGS or allow refunds. If I was a backer who wanted a refund, I’d call my bank and report this. Textbook false advertising and very anti consumer.
This post was edited on 6/11/19 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 7:39 am to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
Hu_Flung_Pu
Do you work for Epic?
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