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re: SBMM: what's the big issue with this for you guys?
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:40 am to Mystery
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:40 am to Mystery
quote:
All 3 of those games have a SBMM system.
Isn't it different? Those games are all about ranked and you are matched with similarly ranked players.
If you're talking about just normal lobbies, no one really plays that on OW or RS.
1
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:42 am to Bonkers119
quote:
my casual friends get absolutely dominated because they are forced to play in our lobbies.
Yep. Really shines in a BR.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:46 am to UltimateHog
quote:
Isn't it different? Those games are all about ranked and you are matched with similarly ranked players.
They all have different systems. I wasn't getting into that. Just thought his point of having no entry point was flawed because they all use a SBMM system.
He framed it as if they don't. quote:
If you're talking about just normal lobbies, no one really plays that on OW or RS.
OW for sure has SBMM in casual as well. They just have two algorithms for each mode. I am not sure on RS.
This post was edited on 4/7/20 at 10:46 am
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:47 am to Mystery
Why can't people just have fun?
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:49 am to sicboy
I listed a number of things that are not fun.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:59 am to Mystery
quote:
It's just the worst.
There are a number of issues with it.
Na. They work, But I do think when it matters actually has a lot to do with the size of the game. Communities like LoL and Overwatch end of up being problematic because one bad player can really hamper a team, or one good player can completely ruin a fair and balanced match. The more players, the less it really matters. Like Bigger Halo sessions, or even sieges in games like Guild Wars.
quote:
The main thing is matchmaking for casual playlist should always prioritize connections. Once you start reaching out farther and farther to reach your skill based requirements this is jeopardized. You don't get the best connection period.
Games should prioritize fun if that's the aim. People can (and some seek to actually actively) ruin fun.
quote:
Another big gripe I personally have with it, is how it effects groups. If you are a casual player and you group with a higher skill friend, you will have a tough time. Instead of the lobby being random and casual as it should be. This causes friends not to even want to play with certain friends.
Most games handle this one pretty well. Smite's ranking system when teaming up is pretty solid. So was Guild Wars.
quote:
If you are highly skilled you have to sweat every game and that is frustrating.
Which is the opposite problem for the unskilled. It's frustrating to be playing casual and see a string of 16 losses, when you're just looking for a fair match that is winnable.
quote:
It's fun to do well in a game that you learned to play, instead of just playing the next wall.
Does the fun matter for someone less skilled, or no?
quote:
Less improvement for new players as they are basically playing another game.
I'd say this is true for only really high-skill cap games, and most games don't fall into this bucket.
quote:
But it is here to stay. The lower skill bracket of players is what makes them more money because of sheer numbers. And by protecting those players, they retain more of them. More players is more money.
I mean, I THINK we've all been on both sides. I've been elite - Enemy Territory, early LoL, Guild Wars, Smite, Team Fortress 1/2, Smash/Splatoon. I've been average - Overwatch, Rainbow Six, later LoL, Titanfall, Fifa, Quake. And I've been shite - CSGO, Any strategy game, Halo, Rocket League.
In all three scenarios, unless I was chasing rank, I was looking for fair, relatively even matched matches that were challenging "good" I was. Casual modes without any ranking are system and I was elite - things like Enemy Territory where I could routinely crush anyone, were boring and I had to find a consistent group to play with. It sneaks through in something like Smite, but they mostly do a good job. LoL became just annoying as my skill dropped and rankings were harder. Great players can completely destroy the fun of a map in that game. And when you get a string of those, even 3 or 4 in a 45-60 min. LoL match, that kills any want to play.
This post was edited on 4/7/20 at 11:00 am
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:06 am to sicboy
This has been a huge debate in Destiny since the game’s release and I remember it being big in Fortnite as well.
This is just my take so take it with a grain of salt, but I am not a fan.
This does not mean I am afraid of good players, which is what most lesser skilled players scream when this is said. I was above average in both games I mentioned above and I loved playing very good opponents and players. However, I don’t like doing it every single game.
There has to be a good ranking system for it to work and I also am not a fan of games that do not allow you a choice of choosing different game modes that find opponents using either SBMM or CBMM.
This is just my take so take it with a grain of salt, but I am not a fan.
This does not mean I am afraid of good players, which is what most lesser skilled players scream when this is said. I was above average in both games I mentioned above and I loved playing very good opponents and players. However, I don’t like doing it every single game.
There has to be a good ranking system for it to work and I also am not a fan of games that do not allow you a choice of choosing different game modes that find opponents using either SBMM or CBMM.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:09 am to McCaigBro69
Yea one of the big problems with Destiny is you mix SBMM with pretty abysmal P2P connections and no dedicated servers. It is a terrible combination.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:12 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Pretty similar issue with Destiny 2 right now. It is fine to have SBMM in competitive modes. I still don't necessarily like it, but that is fine.
The issue with trials right now is that there is no incentive for lesser skilled players to go into the game mode because you don’t get loot unless you win three games.
They absolutely botched the loot system and now it’s all streamers and account recoveries forcing the former above average players to now be at the bottom of the totem pole
I went flawless every weekend usually in D1, usually on every character. Did the same with Trials of the Nine before I stopped playing because the gameplay sucked.
I got to the lighthouse in week one of Trials‘ return a few weeks ago and have gotten to 6-0 one other time since then. It’s insane how the game mode died in like a month.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:20 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Which is the opposite problem for the unskilled. It's frustrating to be playing casual and see a string of 16 losses, when you're just looking for a fair match that is winnable
If they are that bad then that is a ‘me’ problem.
I sucked dick at PVP in D1 for most of year one. Started playing for a few hours every day because I wanted to get better and went from a 0.65 KD to a 1.5 in like three months.
People who buy a game and play 1-2 games a week and then rage because they suck are not who devs should be catering to. The hardcore players are who keep a game relevant in regards to media (Twitch, YouTube) which draws more players to the game.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:21 am to McCaigBro69
Yea, Trials has its own set of massive issues, well beyond just SBMM and poor connections/cheating.
I'd consider myself a slightly above average D2 pvp player. I'll go off some games, and get my shite pushed in others. This season of Trials has been absolutely awful. The sweat involved in the first 3 games of tickets has been insane.
I'd consider myself a slightly above average D2 pvp player. I'll go off some games, and get my shite pushed in others. This season of Trials has been absolutely awful. The sweat involved in the first 3 games of tickets has been insane.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:22 am to Freauxzen
I am not even going to pretend like I know anything about those RPG/moba games you are talking about.
Everything I am addressing is for FPS and TPS games.
What? The game should actually work first. Nothing fun about a 150-200 ping sever in a shooter. Every fraction matters.
Not talking about those games. When I get 18 kills in a BR match and my two teammates have 1 each, that isn't fun for my teammates. Or in a respawn match when they can't get over a .5 k/d, that isn't fun. Because although the lobby gets easier for me, it gets much harder for them.
I simply don't think players should be protected from what they really are. And not just in video games. But that is my opinion. This part of the issue is obviously going to be why bad players want it. And it's the least of my worries if they actually show a real ranked system. Hidden in casual is my gripe. (Modern Warfare)
Everything I am addressing is for FPS and TPS games.
quote:
Games should prioritize fun if that's the aim. People can (and some seek to actually actively) ruin fun.
What? The game should actually work first. Nothing fun about a 150-200 ping sever in a shooter. Every fraction matters.
quote:
Most games handle this one pretty well. Smite's ranking system when teaming up is pretty solid. So was Guild Wars.
Not talking about those games. When I get 18 kills in a BR match and my two teammates have 1 each, that isn't fun for my teammates. Or in a respawn match when they can't get over a .5 k/d, that isn't fun. Because although the lobby gets easier for me, it gets much harder for them.
quote:
Does the fun matter for someone less skilled, or no?
I simply don't think players should be protected from what they really are. And not just in video games. But that is my opinion. This part of the issue is obviously going to be why bad players want it. And it's the least of my worries if they actually show a real ranked system. Hidden in casual is my gripe. (Modern Warfare)
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:26 am to Mystery
quote:
I simply don't think players should be protected from what they really are. And not just in video games. But that is my opinion. This part of the issue is obviously going to be why bad players want it. And it's the least of my worries if they actually show a real ranked system. Hidden in casual is my gripe. (Modern Warfare)
Agreed. I get far more frustrated playing in poor connection games, than getting matched against players well above my skill level once in a while. Casual game modes, the average player will enjoy their time much more if the connections are good.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:46 am to GoCrazyAuburn
There's a lot of complaints here that doesn't come close to mentioning the REAL issue with SBMM(at least in the new COD)...
If you're playing with a group of friends and it drags you into a lower skilled lobby....it fricks your accuracy and gun to hell. Just entire mags dumped into someone with barely any damage....meanwhile you die instantly at a ranged unicorn fart.
That's the problem. That's why its bullshite.
If you're playing with a group of friends and it drags you into a lower skilled lobby....it fricks your accuracy and gun to hell. Just entire mags dumped into someone with barely any damage....meanwhile you die instantly at a ranged unicorn fart.
That's the problem. That's why its bullshite.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:49 am to pankReb
Another great point. I don't know if that applies to other games or not. It might, just never heard it before.
COD though, it absolutely does. It is ridiculous. Any lower skilled player than you, some bullets will fail to register. It is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
COD though, it absolutely does. It is ridiculous. Any lower skilled player than you, some bullets will fail to register. It is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:51 am to GoCrazyAuburn
I'd like to say that I'm really good(not great) at COD so the SBMM doesn't bother me in the initial theory of it....
...but if I shoot a mother fricker it should register with the same accuracy and damage as the other person's gun.
ETA: whomever is responsible for this deserves to get flogged by thousands of wired-controller wielding gamers.
...but if I shoot a mother fricker it should register with the same accuracy and damage as the other person's gun.
ETA: whomever is responsible for this deserves to get flogged by thousands of wired-controller wielding gamers.
This post was edited on 4/7/20 at 11:55 am
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:15 pm to pankReb
quote:
you're playing with a group of friends and it drags you into a lower skilled lobby....it fricks your accuracy and gun to hell. Just entire mags dumped into someone with barely any damage....meanwhile you die instantly at a ranged unicorn fart.
That is insane. I haven’t played war zone and don’t know much about it, but my god.
That was another reason I didn’t like Fortnite. Devs put WAY too much bloom into the game and defended it by saying they wanted players to build structures and if the weapons were 100% accurate then higher gun skilled players would win every fight.
Bloom is one of the worst ideas of all-time for PVP games.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:17 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
That is insane. I haven’t played war zone and don’t know much about it, but my god.
I'm not sure if it does it in Warzone or not, but in the normal COD multiplayer, it does and it is ridiculous. I think I saw someone tested it and it gets up to like 30% I think it was of your bullets don't register.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:20 pm to pankReb
quote:
whomever is responsible for this deserves to get flogged by thousands of wired-controller wielding gamers.
Are we sure this is being implemented right now? I know that was in the wording of Activisions patent. But I don't know.
Bad players here will say, but don't you want the game to be fun?
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:21 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
Bloom is one of the worst ideas of all-time for PVP games.
Bloom sucks but at least everyone gets the same tools. What they are saying is far more sinister.
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