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re: Anyone think some people take food maybe a little too seriously here?

Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:47 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:47 am to
quote:

I think the term "hipster" is overused and often misapplied.

i don't think hipsters actually contribute to the kind of culture mike is speaking of, anyway
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
110956 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:48 am to
quote:

the problem is he's railed on houston a bunch in his time on TD


Has he done so?

I consider Houston a decent food city. It could be better, but truth be told, so could New Orleans, at least as far as the breadth of its offerings.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86192 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:48 am to
quote:

I'd argue they are often at least the impetus for it.


exactly

Hipsters are most definitely driving the food scene in San Francisco.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:49 am to
quote:

And you're right, as far as ethnic cuisine goes, Houston is far superior to his beloved New Orleans. It's not even close.

i really would love to see a legit houston v. nola debate. i mean in globo

"culture"
food
"stuff to do"

etc

it's funny that my thread on the OT about "stuff to do" was followed by houston being labelled the 2nd most boring city in the world, which led to that discussion again
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173712 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:50 am to
quote:


Has he done so?

I consider Houston a decent food city. It could be better, but truth be told, so could New Orleans, at least as far as the breadth of its offerings.


Seems pretty simple to me

New Orleans is superior in the per capita of Fine Dining and the uniqueness of the local scene

Houston is far superior in the breadth of its offerings
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:51 am to
quote:

Hipsters are most definitely driving the food scene in San Francisco.

all that counter cultures like this do is reject the popular preferences of the time...which they just created

i think those segments are more responsible for changes, not increasing quality. that concept is often confused, though
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61833 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 10:54 am to
quote:

you're about experimentation, quality ingredients, advanced preparation, finding an identity, etc. this is mostly located to high-end places. it's hard to produce all of these qualities at a reasonable price


It's symbolic of the times, but no, it's not hard to produce at a reasonable price. Poduct > Labor, always. A chief reason most restaurants go out of business when they have a good following and people are puzzled as to why that happened, is because of their astronomical food cost. I'd say it's more path of least resistance and lack of care than it is anything else. People who have the means to open restaurants have money to support it at the bank, so those who really should own restaurants, professional chefs and those who have strict food principles, don't make the money or have the equity to open one and so don't end up having the influence except for at high end fine dining restaurants where these principles are more the norm than not because it's what's expected with the money that goes along with it. However, to cook your own roast IF ANYTHING for a sandwich shop may be more labor intensive to a degree, and take a little bit of cooking skills, it's always going to be less expensive than buying roast beef from sysco. But labor is dumbed down, and so because of that you find people being aprehensive to doing that, and much easier to just buy from the purveyor instead. It's an entire system that has bought into a big marketing gimick to save time, and now they're trapped. And plus, nobody is demanding it, so why would things ever change?


quote:

i mean the best poboy in LA is the darrells special, and what makes it "truly great" is jalepeno mayo, super-buttered bread, gravy, and cheese.



I'm sorry?

Posted by Rohan2Reed
Member since Nov 2003
75674 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:00 am to
quote:

chains don't become successful because they put out a bad product at a high price.


Chains are successful because people are either uneducated about what continues "good value" or because they don't understand what quality food tastes like or entails, or they don't care. You can have a better quality meal at home for less money that you can at Chili's. Now, I'm not necessarily talking about what tastes better to someone (because I agree with you when you say taste is more often than not negligible, subjective and has other contributing factors besides just the food itself); I'm referring specifically to the condition of the food. THE only reason anyone should be eating at a Sysco factory like Applebee's, et. al. is if they want a "fun dining experience" for a kid's birthday party but can't afford a higher end restaurant and/or don't have enough room in their home to accommodate the guests.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:03 am to
quote:

However, to cook your own roast IF ANYTHING for a sandwich shop may be more labor intensive to a degree, and take a little bit of cooking skills, it's always going to be less expensive than buying roast beef from sysco.

if it's less expensive (in terms of food and labor), then it makes no sense to use sysco. i mean NONE

that goes against economic efficiency

quote:

But labor is dumbed down

aka, is cheaper

quote:

I'm sorry?

the best poboy in LA is teh darrells special in Lake Charles, and those variables are what makes it great
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:03 am to
quote:

i mean the best poboy in LA is the darrells special,


Ive consumed several. IMO, one of the better sanwiches made, but not sure if it fits the true traditional definition of 'poboy'.

I will say that it ranks right up there with the best of 'whatever it actually is'?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:07 am to
quote:

because people are either uneducated about what continues "good value" or because they don't understand what quality food tastes like or entails

that's a catch 22

people who look down on chains will always proclaim a non-chain as having superior food, and thus, those who enjoy chains have no palate. that's ridiculous and just is illogical

quote:

I'm referring specifically to the condition of the food.

and we haven't established which condition of food is superior to the other

you have your thoughts, but it's not certain at all

quote:

THE only reason anyone should be eating at a Sysco factory like Applebee's, et. al. is if they want a "fun dining experience" for a kid's birthday party but can't afford a higher end restaurant

that's kind of the whole point i was making

places like applebees, chillis, etc allow people to get a reasonable meal at a good price. instead of going out once a month to a nice place, a couple can go out once a week and save money in the long run. it's a choice of efficiency, and that efficiency has created a backlash among people who claim to have superior palates and claim to know more about biochemistry of food. it doesn't SEEM like it can be as good, so it can't

that leads to the elitism that mike is accused of leading, and it does nothing to help anybody on either side or at any level of dining preference

people who typically flock to cultural niches like food often do not want "normal" people in their club. i hope nobody is debating this point
This post was edited on 4/13/12 at 11:08 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:07 am to
quote:

I will say that it ranks right up there with the best of 'whatever it actually is'?

fair enough
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61833 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:12 am to
quote:

if it's less expensive (in terms of food and labor), then it makes no sense to use sysco. i mean NONE

that goes against economic efficiency



Yes, it does.

quote:

aka, is cheaper


aka is less of a cost than product. It's a trade off people have made and it affects the food quality almost everywhere you go these days because actually "cooking" food the way people do at their home is rare indeed because people have bought into the can opener and scissors at their prep station as being a better answer than a knife and a cutting board.

quote:

the best poboy in LA is teh darrells special in Lake Charles, and those variables are what makes it great


I lived on 5th for a few years, and ate it quite regularly on my way home from work. It was the best in Lake Chuck by far and not bad tasting at all, but to say it's the best I've had is just not the case. It's flooded in jalapeno mayo and so I'd say most people who love it are probably also in love with Canes sauce. Which is fine, but it doesn't make it a great RB Poboy, and certainly not what constitutes the best RB Poboy in the state IMO.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:16 am to
quote:

Yes, it does.

then explain why it's so popular?

are you saying the most successful food companies are willingly losing money? that doesn't make sense

quote:

aka is less of a cost than product.

so in other words, is cheaper?

quote:

It's a trade off people have made and it affects the food quality

it affects the perception of quality

quote:

actually "cooking" food the way people do at their home is rare indeed because people have bought into the can opener and scissors at their prep station as being a better answer than a knife and a cutting board.

that is something completely different and is more of a product of changing demographics and individual economic realities than anything else

quote:

It's flooded in jalapeno mayo and so I'd say most people who love it are probably also in love with Canes sauce



quote:

and certainly not what constitutes the best RB Poboy in the state IMO.

if there is one po boy that i have seen posted on this site (FB and OT) as being the best, it's the special

you obviously disagree, but the people have spoken. now, i know you think these people are lazy peons who wouldn't know taste if you poured creme frege down their throats, but it be what it be
Posted by Count Chocula
Tier 5 and proud
Member since Feb 2009
63908 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:17 am to
quote:

places like applebees, chillis, etc allow people to get a reasonable meal at a good price.
Example: The country folks in Erath and Abbeville (who eat the best home cooking in the world btw) think that coming to Lafayette on a Friday night to eat at Applebees is high frickn cotten. They wont go to Iminellis or Cochone cause its either to high fancy falluten or too expensive. In their world, Applebees serves their purposes just fine. Not everyone wears a $1000 suit or drives a Porsche 911.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173712 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:17 am to
quote:


aka is less of a cost than product. It's a trade off people have made and it affects the food quality almost everywhere you go these days because actually "cooking" food the way people do at their home is rare indeed because people have bought into the can opener and scissors at their prep station as being a better answer than a knife and a cutting board.


Dude not every chain restaurant is pouring stuff out of a can

You generalize way too much

And besides, there are some instances where canned stuff makes for a better ingredient than the fresh stuff. You'll even see guys like Bobby Flay using canned tomatoes because sometimes it makes more sense.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476729 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:19 am to
quote:

Not everyone wears a $1000 suit or drives a Porsche 911.

agreed

it's one reason i tolerate all the problems with LC. the people here are like that, for the most part
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173712 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:22 am to
Isn't it widely known that a couple of the more revered roast beef poboys in NOLA use a lot of "low quality" prepackaged ingredients to make their roast beef?

These people aren't doing things the "honest" way according to Mike yet they're part of the epicenter of the food culture in New Orleans.
Posted by Rohan2Reed
Member since Nov 2003
75674 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:23 am to
quote:

people who look down on chains will always proclaim a non-chain as having superior food, and thus, those who enjoy chains have no palate. that's ridiculous and just is illogical


anyone who thinks or talks like that (and the same can be said for people on the polar opposite end of the topic) needs to gain some perspective.

quote:

places like applebees, chillis, etc allow people to get a reasonable meal at a good price. instead of going out once a month to a nice place, a couple can go out once a week and save money in the long run. it's a choice of efficiency, and that efficiency has created a backlash among people who claim to have superior palates and claim to know more about biochemistry of food. it doesn't SEEM like it can be as good, so it can't


Honestly, I never experienced this IRL. I'm sure they're out there but it's certainly not the norm - even among the non-chain eating folks who see the long drive-thru line at Taco Bell. Most just feel a little pity then move on with their day.

quote:

people who typically flock to cultural niches like food often do not want "normal" people in their club.


I consider myself a foodie, and have no problem admitting there is a subset (mostly hipster douchebags) who don't want any yuppies hanging around their cool little speakeasy restaurant where only "people in the know" should be allowed to dine. I experienced a ton of this bullshite when I lived in NYC and would go to Brooklyn to get some food or have a couple drinks. I'd show up wearing a Polo or a buttonup and my frat boy haircut and all these fricking dickbags stared at me like they were annoyed someone outside their hip circle "found out" about their favorite little joints. fricking ridiculous. No doubt, there is a lot of close-mindedness on both sides.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173712 posts
Posted on 4/13/12 at 11:25 am to
quote:



I consider myself a foodie, and have no problem admitting there is a subset (mostly hipster douchebags) who don't want any yuppies hanging around their cool little speakeasy restaurant where only "people in the know" should be allowed to dine.

Yep

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