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Is opening of Morganza a "natural" disaster?

Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:06 am
Posted by hawkster
Member since Aug 2010
6286 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:06 am
Obviously, the high Mississippi river level is a natural event. And also obviously, the opening of the floodgates is manmade event. But agriculture in the basin is only possible because of manmade structures.

So....Is the disaster because of man's actions or is the agriculture and residency in between floods a result of man's actions?
This post was edited on 5/11/11 at 8:10 am
Posted by VOR
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
67656 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:07 am to
I view it as a necessity to avoid the flooding of the coolest city in the country. So . . . yes and no.
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:11 am to
flood board
Posted by hawkster
Member since Aug 2010
6286 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:14 am to
quote:

flood board


True, but I created the post in response to action by politicians to declare it a natural disaster for purposes of government relief. I'll still ask admin to move it though.
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59651 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:15 am to
we will get government relief but its a disaster that looks natural but is brought on by human actions.
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:22 am to
No actually that is wrong, if not for mans actions the property that is going to flood probably woulldnt usuable anyway so mans actions have allowed them use of this resource all along this is a natural disaster
Posted by fouldeliverer
Lannisport
Member since Nov 2008
13538 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:32 am to
I say yes, that area would still flood regardless of whether Morganza is opened. (At least from what I have read. )
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
59651 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:37 am to
who cares if it is we are still going to get federal disaster money and insurance companies will still give you flood insurance money.

calling it natural or not doesn't really matter.
Posted by gabe311
New Orleans
Member since Jun 2010
2039 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:37 am to
quote:

that area would still flood regardless of whether Morganza is opened


This is what I have read to happen as well. So this is a natural disaster, made worse by man for the people located in the Ach Basin.
Posted by KLSU
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2003
11000 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:39 am to
What if the Morganza locks were not there now much farming would be going on in that area now?

What are the locks built for?
Posted by Ford Frenzy
337 posts
Member since Aug 2010
6878 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 8:52 am to
quote:

I view it as a necessity to avoid the flooding of the coolest city in the country. So . . . yes and no.


I really hope you mean NOLA and not BR
Posted by hawkster
Member since Aug 2010
6286 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 9:00 am to
quote:

I really hope you mean NOLA and not BR


This thread moved from the poli board to here. The NOLA/BR debate will necessitate yet another move.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61461 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 9:04 am to
Not in a true sense of the world is this a natural disaster, but considering this apparantly is the result of an event by mother nature that rarely happens, I guess it can be called one.
Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18566 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 9:06 am to
quote:

So....Is the disaster because of man's actions or is the agriculture and residency in between floods a result of man's actions?


Both. Baton Rouge AND New Orleans have a river for commerce because of man's actions. The Corps has "tamed" the River through levees and the control structures. If it had not, much of the land that will be flooded would already be under water, and the two largest cities in Louisiana would have a small bayou running past them rather than a major river.

The real question is whether there is some better way to do it. No one has thought of one yet.
Posted by agdoctor
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2004
3198 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 10:35 am to
quote:

calling it natural or not doesn't really matter.


This is not true. The crops in the spillway are not covered if the locks are opened. The way they see it is that is not a natural disaster.However, if the water goes over the top of the locks that is a natural disaster and they would be covered. What Commissioner Strain is proposing is that the Corps says the water will go over the locks if they dont open the locks so it would flood either way and that Congress should declare it a natural disaster either way.
Posted by hawkster
Member since Aug 2010
6286 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 10:49 am to
quote:

agdoctor


Thanks for that explanation. It's logical, yet it adds whole new facets to the debate.

In the natural versus man-made flood debate, the continuing NOLA/Katrina levee failure controversy complicates the issue even further. And I would think that some people in Congress will consider that controversy in any ruling on the Morganza proposal.

And would the Corps be opening to gates to activate the floodway for which they were built, or to prevent the failure of their structure itself?
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 11:17 am to
quote:

Is opening of Morganza a "natural" disaster?


I see what you are getting at...

So here's something neat about earthquakes. No one has actually died from the earthquake (unless they fell into the fault and died there). People die from structures breaking or collapsing.

But the earthquake is a force of nature. If that helps any, then there you go.
Posted by Big McLargeHuge
Member since Jun 2008
634 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 11:28 am to
The phenomenon that causes the river to rise and fall during different seasons is natural. In the past, there were no levees and the flooding would happen when necessary. The whole thing wasn't conducive to shipping traffic. So they built the levees and Eads built some jeddies to cut away at the sediment blocking the delta and they did what was necessary to support shipping traffic The levees reduced the frequency of floods but they increased the damage they can do because they force the water up instead of out. They eventually fail and do more harm to people that were encouraged to live there by the levees existence. It doesn't matter. It's the system we got. We need to figure out how to work with it.
Posted by agdoctor
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2004
3198 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 11:32 am to
quote:

or to prevent the failure of their structure itself?


anytime water runs over a levee or structure for an extended period of time it will but tremendous stress and increases the chances of failure. People I know in the spillway other than those with a crop that is ready to harvest have been hoping they would actually open it sooner but more gradual.
Posted by nrtiger
Paradise
Member since Nov 2003
1352 posts
Posted on 5/11/11 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

No actually that is wrong, if not for mans actions the property that is going to flood probably woulldnt usuable anyway so mans actions have allowed them use of this resource all along this is a natural disaster


False. This land would be protected with a higher levee at potato levee that allows water into the forebay. The shortened potato levee would be at the higher elevation that is north and south of this land to protect from floods. The potato levee is designed to let water into the forebay and eventually thru the spillway. The spillway is man made just like the levees. There is no significant elevation difference in the land that is in the spillway compared to land north and south of it.
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