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re: The Greatest Baseball Player of the Modern Era
Posted on 8/1/14 at 6:03 pm to VerlanderBEAST
Posted on 8/1/14 at 6:03 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Bond pre-roids shits on Aaron
So now we're cherry picking seasons to make our case?
How bout this for Aaron:Higher lifetime BA,almost 600 more hits and 300 more RBI's than Barry
Aaron flushes Bonds down the toilet for CAREER numbers...the only historical statistic (HR's) he passes him on and he had to CHEAT to do it
Capeche?
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 6:27 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Really?You sure about that?Per Fay Vincents memorandum to all teams in 1990
"The possesion,sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by MLB players and personnel is strickly prohibited.
Those involved are subject to discipline from the commisioner or expulsion from the game"
"The prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances including STEROIDS and perscription drugs for which the individual does not have a prescription"
Pretty clear to anybody that reads.
Like many other divisive issues, opinions seem to render more objective findings less palatable. People who defend the steroid era will just fire off distraction argument after distraction argument on this issue IMO.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 6:29 pm to RD Dawg
For people that don't remember their early careers I think it is also interesting how badly KGJr's numbers outclass Barry Bonds. I remember Bonds making a comment to the effect that he looked back on his early career in that light and considered himself to have underachieved. But no doubt the bobble head Barry was the greatest hitter I've ever seen on the field.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:08 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Aaron flushes Bonds down the toilet for CAREER numbers.
No he really doesn't....
while Aaron dominates hits (3771 to 2935) Bonds played in 312 less games so almost 2 seasons worth. Bonds also walked 1152 more times in those 312 LESS games than what Aaron played in.... Your "lifetime BA" argument is over 7 points... big deal really since Bonds holds a 70 point lead in OBP, and a 52 point lead on Slugging percentage...
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:12 pm to tduecen
quote:
No he really doesn't....
while Aaron dominates hits (3771 to 2935) Bonds played in 312 less games so almost 2 seasons worth. Bonds also walked 1152 more times in those 312 LESS games than what Aaron played in.... Your "lifetime BA" argument is over 7 points... big deal really since Bonds holds a 70 point lead in OBP, and a 52 point lead on Slugging percentage...
Now the statheads have all these numbers vs. the league - wonder how they'd rate then? Aaron spent 10 years in the 60's, most of Bonds' career was in the 90's and early 00's - big difference in the leagues.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:27 pm to molsusports
quote:
For people that don't remember their early careers I think it is also interesting how badly KGJr's numbers outclass Barry Bonds
Let us use 1989 (Ken Griffey First Season) to 1999 (when Griffey was traded)
Griffey: 398 home runs in that span
Bonds: 380 home runs in that span
Griffey: 167 stolen bases in that span
Bonds: 375 stolen bases in that span
Griffey: 1742 hits in that span
Bonds: 1622 hits in that span
Griffey: 1535 games in that span
Bonds: 1593 games in that span
Griffey: 747 walks in that span
Bonds: 1239 walks in that span
Griffey: 948 strike outs in that span
Bonds: 842 strike outs in that span
Griffey: 5832 at bats in that span
Bonds: 5474 at bats in that span
Griffey: 320 doubles in that span
Bonds: 333 doubles in that span
Griffey: 30 triples in that span
Bonds: 58 triples in that span
So where does Griffey's numbers outclass Bonds over the same time frame? I stopped at 1999 because that is when Griffey was traded to the Reds and that was season before Bonds was accused of steroids.... I could just use their first 10 seasons then Griffey has a larger advantage in games played, at bats, plate appearances, yet would still be behind in stolen bases, walks, triples, doubles, and Bonds would still have less strike outs.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:30 pm to tduecen
quote:
lifetime BA arguement only 7 points
So what? 7 points is still considerable especially over 22 seasons and the fact the many of his hits and his .BA were "enhanced" with some "help"
You wanna bring up OPS abd I'll bring up total bases...almost 900 more.
Do I really think he "flushes Bonds career numbers down the toilet"? ...not really...I was making and somewhat exaggerated reponse to the moronic use of cherry picking seaons and then telling me the pre-roids Bonds "shits all over Aaron"
A GOAT arguement can be made for Bond (if you want to ignore cheating which clearly you want to do)Ruth and Aaron...just think Hank gets short changed in many of these discussions.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:38 pm to RD Dawg
Hank does because he wasn't flashy... He was consistent but he only led league in home runs 4 times over 23 seasons, 4 times he led league in RBI, twice he led the league in average.
Again you bring up total bases, Aaron played in 312 more games with 2157 more AT Bats almost 4 seasons worth more.
Again you bring up total bases, Aaron played in 312 more games with 2157 more AT Bats almost 4 seasons worth more.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 7:38 pm to gthog61
That's why stats exist to attempt to compare eras and look at park factors. It is not perfect and there are still unturned variables, but it can give us some nice comparisons.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 8:16 pm to tduecen
quote:
Let us use 1989 (Ken Griffey First Season) to 1999 (when Griffey was traded)
I kinda think it was obvious I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison with respect to their years in the league. Bonds being three years older and Griffey being a rookie in 89 allows your comparison to leave out the years Bonds looked back on and considered to be underachieving.
Bonds first three years in MLB are fine for a young player but Griffey's first three years were worlds better.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 8:19 pm to molsusports
As I stated at the end of my post, Griffey would still have the advantage in home runs/hits and Bonds the advantage in doubles, triples, stolen bases, walks, less strike outs.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 8:58 pm to tduecen
I think if you look at the first five years of their respective careers it is pretty clear griff>>>bonds for those respective periods.
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