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re: Civil War Confederate veteran interview
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:46 pm to fr33manator
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:46 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Do you know what slavery was like in other places around the world?
Do you know what slavery here was like and what made it different from other forms?
1
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:49 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
There could have been some sort of agreement that would have avoided war
No there couldn't have been. There was no reason for the stronger party to consider negotiations at all over something it considered its own property. Neither South Carolina as a state nor the Confederacy as a whole had enough leverage to actually off the Union something that would make up for the loss of such strategic superiority.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:52 pm to wadewilson
The South was getting mixed messages on intentions of what would be done with the forts, the US military got to Sumter by abandoning Moultrie and spiking its guns in the middle of the night, and new soldiers to do what exactly? Remember, the US government being an agent of SC’s defense had been revoked. The US wasn’t acting in an open and honest way in many respects as far as I can tell.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:52 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Relatively?
Umm...no. Not relatively.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
No there couldn't have been. There was no reason for the stronger party to consider negotiations at all over something it considered its own property. Neither South Carolina as a state nor the Confederacy as a whole had enough leverage to actually off the Union something that would make up for the loss of such strategic superiority.
Read my later posts where I was explaining the US perspective in the days before the war started.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:54 pm to wadewilson
In the history of wrongness you are among the most wrong ever. Congratulations.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 1:59 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Read my later posts where I was explaining the US perspective in the days before the war started.
I did, but you are suggesting that the Confederates seeking a negotiated settlement for Federal lands was some sort of positive on the part of the Confederacy, as some good-faith effort to prevent bloodshed. The irony becomes apparent when you compare South Carolina's Declaration of Secession. You should read it and then think about what you said. I also don't believe in your ability to accurately summarize any historical matter without your eternal victimization affecting your viewpoint.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:01 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you know what slavery here was like and what made it different from other forms?
As one of my LSU professors told me, it ran the gamut. Some were horribly treated, others relatively well. But American chattel slavery, overall, was much preferable to places like the Caribbean or S America, where they were essentially worked to death since there would always be new replacements coming in.
Or places in Africa, like the Belgian Congo, where similar situations existed. Basically the more available slaves are, the less valuable and more expendable.
It was a fascinating course. I’m trying to remember the professor’s name. He wrote an excellent book…slavery and freedom or something like that?
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:07 pm to fr33manator
quote:
But American chattel slavery, overall, was much preferable to places like the Caribbean or S America, where they were essentially worked to death since there would always be new replacements coming in.
What an equivocation. And that isn't what I'm talking about. American chattel slavery was part of the broader European chattel slavery system, which was distinct from other forms of slavery for one particular reason.
Also this is just an incredibly bad argument.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:09 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
The way this stuff gets framed
Lincoln literally lit the powder on the first cannon blast, bro.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:14 pm to Yaz 8
quote:
In the history of wrongness you are among the most wrong ever. Congratulations.
Sorry that I don't believe in a revisionist history founded by an organization that's so closely aligned with white supremacist organizations of the early 20th century that it's hard to tell where the UDC ends and the KKK starts.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:15 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I did, but you are suggesting that the Confederates seeking a negotiated settlement for Federal lands was some sort of positive on the part of the Confederacy, as some good-faith effort to prevent bloodshed.
I was explaining the Confederate perspective of the matter. I did not give my opinion on rhe right or wrong of it.
quote:
The irony becomes apparent when you compare South Carolina's Declaration of Secession. You should read it and then think about what you said. I also don't believe in your ability to accurately summarize any historical matter without your eternal victimization affecting your viewpoint.
Believe what you want. It’s wrong. But you do you.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:15 pm to fr33manator
quote:
But American chattel slavery, overall, was much preferable to places like the Caribbean or S America, where they were essentially worked to death since there would always be new replacements coming in.
So it's better to treat humans like yard dogs than fighting dogs?
I guess you're right about that.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:16 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Lincoln literally lit the powder on the first cannon blast, bro.
You'd think we'd be past this, but then I realize that our grandfathers lived during the time of the Lost Cause and also listened to the stories from their Confederate grandfathers. So this history is still really tangible.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:19 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Lincoln literally lit the powder on the first cannon blast, bro.
Your ignorance of the political realities and maneuvering in both the North & South prior to the bombardment of Fort Sumter is only surpassed by your comfort in said ignorance. I pity people like you who have a moronic simpleton’s understanding of history. Because of it, you lack the ability to understand the world around you.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:24 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
You'd think we'd be past this, but then I realize that our grandfathers lived during the time of the Lost Cause and also listened to the stories from their Confederate grandfathers. So this history is still really tangible.
It’s embarrassing that you’re oblivious one of the most widely accepted historic truths that historians agree upon is that Lincoln masterfully maneuvered the South to fire the first shots of the war. It’s still recognized as a brilliant political move on his part.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:25 pm to wadewilson
quote:
So it's better to treat humans like yard dogs than fighting dogs?
I’m basing it on mortality rates and accounts I’ve read. Not in any way saying one was good.
It’s an objectively awful situation either way you cut it.
Kind of like asking if you’d rather be stuck in Verdun or Vietnam.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:26 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I was explaining the Confederate perspective of the matter. I did not give my opinion on rhe right or wrong of it
And I'm explaining the reality of what international negotiations look like, you moron. If Party A has something Party B wants, Party B must have something that Party A wants of equal or greater value in order to gain that concession. This is so fundamental that I'm not sure why you are involving how international settlements are negotiated. I'm not giving an opinion on the matter either.
quote:
Believe what you want. It’s wrong. But you do you.
Nah, it's not.
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:28 pm to fr33manator
quote:
I’m basing it on mortality rates and accounts I’ve read. Not in any way saying one was good.
Whose accounts?
quote:
It’s an objectively awful situation either way you cut it.
Kind of like asking if you’d rather be stuck in Verdun or Vietnam.
You are the one who brought up the equivocation! What the frick are you talking about?
Posted on 10/27/22 at 2:30 pm to parrothead
quote:
Maybe just states rights as a whole?
Actually, yes. Do a search on "nullification" as it relates to States declaring Federal laws that they saw as an overreach of power to be "null and void" within their state borders. This was a HUGE issue at the time, and THE PRIMARY CAUSE for secession. The institution of slavery fell under the heading of nullification, but did not stand alone, nor was it THE primary motivating cause, for secession as many claim.
(I'm not saying "do a search" in a snarky or smart-arse tone either. I mean, take the time to look into it. It's very interesting to see and understand the multiple causes that led to the war brought about by secession. There's a shite-ton more to that break-up than either side will admit, and the repercussions of it are affecting our nation in many ways today that are detrimental to the republic established by the founders.)
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