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Started By
Message
I want to hear from the Agnostics. What will the secular world eventually evolve into?
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:15 pm
It's clear that western society is Influenced less and less by christian thought. Even most nominal christians live pretty much secular lives.
Does this mean more freedom is on its way? It's my sense that we are entering a period of less freedom and more dogmatism despite having shed the bonds of religious law. It seems ironic that tolerance seems to be waning just the notion of absolute truth has become an anachronism.
And what about how man deals with his own mortality? Will we see greater and greater hedonism? Will the super rich seriously begin to pursue immortality through science? Will those who truly believe in overpopulation feel free to reduce the head count by any means necessary?
It seems as though social engineering will replace religion as the means too shape public opinion. Isn't that an even more manipulative and disrespectful way of influencing thought?
To me, as a Christian, it seems that secularism is unmasking the true diabolical instincts of man.
I will add that many of you might consider me agnostic, as I confess to periodic episodes of real doubt. But even so, I feel dread over what's to come, and I also feel that, regardless if my own personal beliefs, or yours, that the death of Christianity somehow leaves us all exposed to a horrible decline in true human virtue.
And I'm just wondering if the non-religious among us ever feel the same apprehension.
Does this mean more freedom is on its way? It's my sense that we are entering a period of less freedom and more dogmatism despite having shed the bonds of religious law. It seems ironic that tolerance seems to be waning just the notion of absolute truth has become an anachronism.
And what about how man deals with his own mortality? Will we see greater and greater hedonism? Will the super rich seriously begin to pursue immortality through science? Will those who truly believe in overpopulation feel free to reduce the head count by any means necessary?
It seems as though social engineering will replace religion as the means too shape public opinion. Isn't that an even more manipulative and disrespectful way of influencing thought?
To me, as a Christian, it seems that secularism is unmasking the true diabolical instincts of man.
I will add that many of you might consider me agnostic, as I confess to periodic episodes of real doubt. But even so, I feel dread over what's to come, and I also feel that, regardless if my own personal beliefs, or yours, that the death of Christianity somehow leaves us all exposed to a horrible decline in true human virtue.
And I'm just wondering if the non-religious among us ever feel the same apprehension.
This post was edited on 3/10/21 at 11:18 pm
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Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:27 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
And I'm just wondering if the non-religious among us ever feel the same apprehension.
For sure.
While I'm an atheist, I do think religion acts much like gutter rails for bowling. Some people can bowl without them but most people would do better with them present - keeping your attempts from going in the gutter.
That said, I think most things in life need balance. Give Christianity control over the government and media (social media, news, tv, movies, music, sports, etc.) and I think you'd likely see a different set of issues.
This post was edited on 3/10/21 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:33 pm to RiverCityTider
Good values matter a lot. It doesn't matter where they come from, but they make all the difference in the world if they are the dominant influence.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:36 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
To me, as a Christian, it seems that secularism is unmasking the true diabolical instincts of man
Whenever I see/hear this sentiment I'm struck by what I can only call as recency bias, for lack of a better term. Christianity and its impact has been but a blip in human history, but most of it has seen the same diabolical nature.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:36 pm to Azkiger
quote:Like you implied, it’s all about balance. Religion means nothing to someone who already has sound morals and judgement. But it can be helpful to those who need a hyperbolic threat to scare them away from doing bad things.
While I'm an atheist, I do think religion acts much like gutter rails for bowling. Some people can bowl without them but most people would do better with them present - keeping your attempts from going in the gutter.
That said, I think most things in life need balance. Give Christianity control over the government and media (social media, news, tv, movies, music, sports, etc.) and I think you'd likely see a different set of issues.
It’s completely normal for religion to fade with each generation, because religion is based on rumors, trust, and indoctrination, and these things naturally get filtered out given enough time. I don’t know a single person in their 20’s who is religious, and when all of those people have children, the “non-belief” will only spread more.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:44 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Does this mean more freedom is on its way?
Nihilism leads inexorably to authoritarianism.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:45 pm to Peepdip
quote:
Religion means nothing to someone who already has sound morals and judgement.
Sure. If you can’t be bothered to think about epistemology. Which most people can’t.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:46 pm to SEC. 593
quote:
Christianity and its impact has been but a blip in human history
Judeo-Christian morals span all of recorded history. I guess that’s a blip.
Posted on 3/10/21 at 11:46 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:This just seems a bizarre takeaway. Present day - right here, right now - is vastly better than almost any day in the entirety of human history in terms of "man's diabolical instincts". Centuries/millennia of slavery, feudalism, 100 year wars, etc...and you are worried because people are increasingly drifting away from the gods who people believed sanctioned all of that madness?
To me, as a Christian, it seems that secularism is unmasking the true diabolical instincts of man.
quote:lol what? Christianity presided over some of the most horrific atrocities ever known. shite, we're STILL trying to root out a culture of sexual predation in the Catholic Church.
the death of Christianity somehow leaves us all exposed to a horrible decline in true human virtue.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:07 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
This just seems a bizarre takeaway. Present day - right here, right now - is vastly better than almost any day in the entirety of human history in terms of "man's diabolical instincts". Centuries/millennia of slavery, feudalism, 100 year wars, etc...and you are worried because people are increasingly drifting away from the gods who people believed sanctioned all of that madness?
Just look at the 20th century. Instances of Nation states killing in cold blood, aside from warfare, 1,000,000 or more men, women, and children. These fifteen megamurderers wiped out over 151,000,000 people, almost four times the almost 38,500,000 battle-dead fron all century's international and civil wars.
That's from a period ended 2o years ago, and a vast majority of those deaths may be attributable to anti-religion states and the wars and genocides they instigated.
Unnatural death since the rise of humanism/materialism looks like a parabolic curve. Straight to the moon.
Recent history is the bloodiest time in history, so I find your conclusion strange.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 2:16 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:16 am to the808bass
religion means nothing to someone who already has sound morals
-----------------------------
to have sound morals you must first have standards to measure against. the standards need to be clear with limited interpretations . they should be generally accepted. they should not change with the season or year.
new age folks that distance themselves from religion and call themselves moral should be able to direct themselves to a set of standards that govern their approach to life. the Bible , Koran, Torah, Boy Scout oath, laws of Hammuarbi , oath of allegiance etc are all types of written lasting standards.
as a christian I take a simple approach measuring my actions against the Ten Commandments [Old Testament] and the two new testament ones, to love your neighbor and to forgive them when they screw up.
Commandments that are in decline today would be Honor your mother and father, do not steal, do not covet your neighbors wife, do not kill, and very importantly do not bear false witness, as in lie
folks that are agnostic , atheist etc do not have the standards to base their moral claims on. If they have standards give me a reference to look for.
politicians that claim to be religious, are almost universally afflicted with bearing false witness and do not seem likely to change if forgiven.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:29 am to Trevaylin
And how could one ever claim that modern political discourse in America is a more honest discourse. It's all coldly calculated for effect and seldom intended as a free exchange of ideas.
It seems we live in dishonest times, when manipulation is primarily motivation for everything we do. And the only constraint to the behavior of men seems to be nuclear annihilation or the disruption of commerce.
It seems self conceived moral codes don't work very well at all and non-religious motives are often mixed, well concealed, and inevitably self interested.
It seems we live in dishonest times, when manipulation is primarily motivation for everything we do. And the only constraint to the behavior of men seems to be nuclear annihilation or the disruption of commerce.
It seems self conceived moral codes don't work very well at all and non-religious motives are often mixed, well concealed, and inevitably self interested.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 3:23 am to the808bass
quote:
Nihilism leads inexorably to authoritarianism.
It is early and I am waiting on coffee to brew so I may not have all synapses firing, but I am intrigued by this statement. Is this process you describe a result of society yearning for order from chaos resulting from nihilism?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 4:27 am to Peepdip
quote:
I don’t know a single person in their 20’s who is religious,
obviously you haven't been to church in a while.
I do think the % of religious people is higher than you would think based on the fact it isnt cool to be religious in 2021. so in a way, cancel culture on being loud about going to church
my church isn't that big, and there are many young people there
that being said, covid derailed a lot. almost as if it is planned
Posted on 3/11/21 at 5:47 am to RiverCityTider
I am not religious but without something "morals" = whatever you can get away with.
We can see the sort of "morals" the left would set up.
Schumer and Pelosi are "moral" people.
We can see the sort of "morals" the left would set up.
Schumer and Pelosi are "moral" people.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 6:03 am to RiverCityTider
Christian influences served as a roadblock to hedonism and overindulgence. As it’s message wains , it’s more of a speed bump. Once the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, all Hell will break loose.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 6:05 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
the death of Christianity somehow leaves us all exposed to a horrible decline in true human virtue.
lol what? Christianity presided over some of the most horrific atrocities ever known. shite, we're STILL trying to root out a culture of sexual predation in the Catholic Church.
True, what the Catholic did to so many children is unreal, almost unforgivable because they tried to cover it up.
Priest not being able to marry or have sex so they can try to live to standard of the apostle Paul is NOT scriptural. Paul said if you burn with lust, then it is better to marry. No where in the bible does is it say all Priests of the church must not marry so they can have full devotion to the Lord's work. Therefore, for many,- lust and perversion are lurking and tempting Priest because there is but one apostle Paul.
That being said, I think the OP is perhaps suggesting all these new inventions of sexual orientation, the attempts at changing gender, the cancel culture, smart phones, social media warping our minds and so forth...while the church and Christianity continues to be pushed out of our lives..
what is the end result...??
If' we're a mess with God and his church, how bad will we be outside of him and his church? For clarification, I do not consider the Catholic church "the church"
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 6:09 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 6:08 am to gthog61
quote:
Pelosi are "moral" people.
pelosi claims to be catholic
st. Peter is going to take one look at her and will:
Posted on 3/11/21 at 6:22 am to RiverCityTider
I was raised in a southern Baptist church. I held this as the truth.... then I realized that I believed for bad reasons.
So, I set out to find my own reasons, good reasons to confirm my faith. What I found was, there isn’t a good reason to believe.
How do you reconcile a God that doesn’t know that slavery is wrong?
How do I reconcile a God who thinks my daughter is a lesser person than a man?
How do you reconcile a God who ordered a genocide?
And you wonder how I can have a moral system without your Bible?
Because I don’t need to cherry pick the good parts from an old book of stories to be a good person and neither do you.
So, I set out to find my own reasons, good reasons to confirm my faith. What I found was, there isn’t a good reason to believe.
How do you reconcile a God that doesn’t know that slavery is wrong?
How do I reconcile a God who thinks my daughter is a lesser person than a man?
How do you reconcile a God who ordered a genocide?
And you wonder how I can have a moral system without your Bible?
Because I don’t need to cherry pick the good parts from an old book of stories to be a good person and neither do you.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 6:47 am to Hammer of Rod
just because someone believes in a deity, definitely doesn't mean they have any sort of morality.
if you need to have belief in a deity to be moral, you were never moral in the first place.
if you need to have belief in a deity to be moral, you were never moral in the first place.
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