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re: National Level Pels Coverage is Trash
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:37 am to ScoopAndScore
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:37 am to ScoopAndScore
The rebounding is system.
On offense, he almost never misses so he doesn't have as many chances as some other players to collect his own misses.
On Defense they have him leaking out as soon as shots go up often, and guys like Adams and Hart are gobbling up rebounds.
On offense, he almost never misses so he doesn't have as many chances as some other players to collect his own misses.
On Defense they have him leaking out as soon as shots go up often, and guys like Adams and Hart are gobbling up rebounds.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:45 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
Good in the paint
Great in the Paint
quote:
Brings up the ball sometimes
Rather true. It has only been a few games since the offense has been catered around him being more of a creator.
quote:
High level observation that Zion's defense was better at duke.
It was. He's played better on Defense the last few games but he was more athletic and a better defender (albeit against lesser competition) at Duke. He's still making mistakes on defense but at least he's now playing hard (which is a bigger sin) on that side of the court.
.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 10:50 am
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:46 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:that unfortunately is what’s going to happen when his contract is up . That’s what I like about SVG , frick a minutes restriction... play him while you have him here
They just want him to love to a big market. It is all about the money.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:49 am to BowDownToLSU
quote:
that unfortunately is what’s going to happen when his contract is up .
Giannis is just going to go to Miami or Toronto next year, right?
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:50 am to 504Voodoo
I wouldn't say the National level guys coverage sucks when they are responsible for covering the entire league. We shouldn't expect them to be able to give in depth coverage of mid-level to struggling teams as they are probably on catching them on National broadcast. Teams that aren't winning consistently don't move the needle for these guys. Once the Pels start winning, we'll see more National guys tuning in on random league pass night on Wednesdays.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 11:10 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
High level observation that Zion's defense was better at duke.
I'm so tired of this dumbass train of thought.
Yeah, he's gonna be better at defending some acc forward that plays in a rudimentary offense vs a fricking starting nba forward where everyone bangs 3s.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 12:14 pm to 504Voodoo
quote:
Great in the Paint
Yep
quote:
Rather true. It has only been a few games since the offense has been catered around him being more of a creator.
They didn't touch on him as a creator or his new offensive role in any meaningful way. Bringing the ball up the court is basically incidental. The major change is him initiating the offense in the half court. Centers bring up the ball sometimes when there is ball pressure.
quote:
It was. He's played better on Defense the last few games but he was more athletic and a better defender (albeit against lesser competition) at Duke. He's still making mistakes on defense but at least he's now playing hard (which is a bigger sin) on that side of the court.
They didn't mention any improvement on the defensive end. That's why it's so funny they called it a "check-in". Nothing they talked about was topical to his recent performance besides the +- stuff. Zion hasn't been a good defender for a calendar year and they haven't even noticed he's improved.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 2/19/21 at 12:16 pm to 504Voodoo
When it is their job to cover the league and the most hyped prospect, who you are doing a segment on, is putting up the numbers he is over the last 9-10 games then I do think it’s pretty crappy. They hand picked his two worst +/- stats and don’t mention he is +69 overall over the last 9. It’s lazy coverage. Just don’t do the segment if all it is going to be is “Zion still isn’t good because the Pels aren’t good yet.”
Posted on 2/19/21 at 12:19 pm to 504Voodoo
quote:
I wouldn't say the National level guys coverage sucks when they are responsible for covering the entire league. We shouldn't expect them to be able to give in depth coverage of mid-level to struggling teams as they are probably on catching them on National broadcast. Teams that aren't winning consistently don't move the needle for these guys. Once the Pels start winning, we'll see more National guys tuning in on random league pass night on Wednesdays.
I totally get that, but then they really shouldn't be recording segments on his recent performance if they haven't watched.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 12:58 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Yeah, he's gonna be better at defending some acc forward that plays in a rudimentary offense vs a fricking starting nba forward where everyone bangs 3s.
The thing is, he wasn’t a great defender at Duke.
Look at quality scouting reports, the same things we talk about: ball watching, needs to markedly improve read and react skills, effort issues at times, needs to improve his defensive awareness, communication, all were knocks coming out Duke.
But if you read a Kevin O’Connor article Zion was basically DPOY at Duke, when that was never the case.
It infested this board for a time as well, but the national guys overhyped the expectations for Zion, re-wrote his college career in support of that, then castrated him for not living up to such unrealistic expectations right out the gate, expectations that if Lebron had come out today, he would be eviscerated for his lack of efficiency and defense(or should if standards were equal).
Posted on 2/19/21 at 1:13 pm to Bronc
quote:Because there are many scouting reports that talk up Zion defensively, including KoC and the Ringer's scouting report on Zion:
But if you read a Kevin O’Connor article Zion was basically DPOY at Duke, when that was never the case.
quote:
Williamson hustles on defense, shows good awareness defending off the ball with only occasional lapses, and has magnetic hands that he uses to secure rebounds and loose balls. There’s little doubt Williamson will make a two-way impact as a versatile defender
There are many reputable scouting reports talking up Zion's defensive abilities. The main issues are, we know rookies/youngsters will struggle defensively but we didn't really see glimpses of his 2-way potential. The other is, as you can see with the Ringer scouting report, is they specifically talked about his hustle on defense, and anyone(except for the most strident Zion fans) will tell you effort was absolutely an issue with Zion on defense in year 1, as well as the 1st 10 or so games in year 2.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 2/19/21 at 1:16 pm to shel311
Which very likely directly correlates with him starting off as a fat arse and trending nicely upwards since the bubble
Posted on 2/19/21 at 1:58 pm to shel311
Notice how I said “quality” scouting reports.
Kevin O’Connor is someone that repeatedly embarrasses himself as an analyst
This was put together by two current/former scouts, one formerly for the Suns, the other a AAU scout for various NCAA teams over the years....not some journalist grad with League Pass and a cocky arrogance in his opinion, even when most recently on the Ringer U his cohost had to stop Kev O and point out the criticisms he was making about Zion based on his college play(that he wouldn’t make for Morant) were incorrect. That as a Duke guy, he watched Zion and he always had a problem with ball watching and being late in read and react and it was one of the minor knocks on him.
Thing is you can cover up a lot of weaknesses when you are playing against comparatively amateur talent on a condensed court. Which is what we saw with AD. Many expected him to come out playing at a minimum, like Marcus Camby on defense. But it took years for him to actually adjust to the space, complexity, and difficulty of defending in the NBA.
Kevin O’Connor is someone that repeatedly embarrasses himself as an analyst
This was put together by two current/former scouts, one formerly for the Suns, the other a AAU scout for various NCAA teams over the years....not some journalist grad with League Pass and a cocky arrogance in his opinion, even when most recently on the Ringer U his cohost had to stop Kev O and point out the criticisms he was making about Zion based on his college play(that he wouldn’t make for Morant) were incorrect. That as a Duke guy, he watched Zion and he always had a problem with ball watching and being late in read and react and it was one of the minor knocks on him.
quote:
WEAKNESSES:
DEFENSIVE EFFORT/CONDITIONING:
- Poor effort defensively, rarely gets in stance, doesn’t play D at full speed. Conditioning questions, seems tired at times.
- Loses focus defensively at times, gambles for blocks and steals. Not always in great position, at times late on rotations
OVERALL Zion is a truly elite athlete with underrated feel and instincts, giving him the upside of a future NBA superstar. However, many still worry about his height, inability to hit jumpers and defensive conditioning. If he is even a slightly BELOW average jump shooter, should be a really valuable player.
Thing is you can cover up a lot of weaknesses when you are playing against comparatively amateur talent on a condensed court. Which is what we saw with AD. Many expected him to come out playing at a minimum, like Marcus Camby on defense. But it took years for him to actually adjust to the space, complexity, and difficulty of defending in the NBA.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 2/19/21 at 2:09 pm to Bronc
Fair enough, but...
You shite all over me for probably weeks for me saying exactly this and now you're calling it a reputable scouting report for saying Zion lacked effort defensively.
quote:
WEAKNESSES:
DEFENSIVE EFFORT/CONDITIONING:
- Poor effort defensively
You shite all over me for probably weeks for me saying exactly this and now you're calling it a reputable scouting report for saying Zion lacked effort defensively.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 4:26 pm to shel311
JFC, you still doing this ego preserving dance routine?
I (rightfully) took issue with you for attempting to write down Zion’sceiling after 35 games based on just the sort of unrealistic expectations espoused by these national guys, and getting indignant when I told you that his defensive problems aren’t simply an effort issue, that effort isn’t the primary problem here.
I (rightfully) took issue with you for attempting to write down Zion’sceiling after 35 games based on just the sort of unrealistic expectations espoused by these national guys, and getting indignant when I told you that his defensive problems aren’t simply an effort issue, that effort isn’t the primary problem here.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 4:26 pm to shel311
The shitting on what you and SFP were saying wasn’t that what y’all were saying was incorrect, it was that y’all both felt that his ceiling as a player was dramatically lowered because of his first 35 games in the nba. You both felt that because he wasn’t a two way all star already he was proving he never would be.
He has shown that he is going to improve at an incredibly rapid rate. In the last few games I can remember 3 blocks that he wouldn’t have had last year. He has demonstrated way more potential to be the guy that everyone thought than to lower his ceiling.
He has shown that he is going to improve at an incredibly rapid rate. In the last few games I can remember 3 blocks that he wouldn’t have had last year. He has demonstrated way more potential to be the guy that everyone thought than to lower his ceiling.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 4:45 pm to Bronc
quote:
JFC, you still doing this ego preserving dance routine?
It's amazing that you still won't admit your nonsense. You flipped your shite calling me every name in the book because I said Zion lacked effort on defense and you stated that was simply not true, then you quote what you call a credible scouting report that says Zion lacked effort on defense.
Which is it?
quote:This is all nonsense, you very specifically lost your shite and said Zion did not have a lack of effort on defense, don't try to run away from that now
I (rightfully) took issue with you for attempting to write down Zion’sceiling after 35 games based on just the sort of unrealistic expectations espoused by these national guys, and getting indignant when I told you that his defensive problems aren’t simply an effort issue, that effort isn’t the primary problem here.
So again, which is it? Was I correct all along and you were wrong for calling me all those names SPECIFICALLY for saying Zion lacked effort? Or, is that scouting report you said was credible actually not credible? 1 of those 2 things HAVE to be true if you have any sense of a rational discussion here, so again, which is it?
Posted on 2/19/21 at 4:46 pm to ThePistol
quote:This is nonsense, Bronc said in no uncertain terms that Zion did not lack effort. He can try to weasel his way out of that, but that is fact. You and him can try to argue that facts aren't facts, that's fine. But we all know that happened, so it's cool.
The shitting on what you and SFP were saying wasn’t that what y’all were saying was incorrect
quote:If zion lacks effort on defense, that 100% does lower his ceiling, so I have no clue what you mean here
it was that y’all both felt that his ceiling as a player was dramatically lowered because of his first 35 games in the nba.
quote:This is simply not true, not remotely what I ever said. Why are you claiming this to be the case if I never said anything close to this?
You both felt that because he wasn’t a two way all star already he was proving he never would be.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 4:51 pm
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